Lost Odyssey

[Rudderless]

None of them are falsehoods, however unfair you think they may be.

See, now you're just being pedantic. And when I said 'more than just different points of view' I didn't mean that those statements were facts, just silly - and redundant - arguments. It reads like it's been written by someone who's never played a jRPG in his life, and has just read the FF page on Wikipedia for research. His point about the game's 'concessions' suggests as much.

Anyway, I've wasted too long on this today. I wish I'd never posted the damn thing now, even though I was just trying to be helpful.

[b00dles]

I think people need to review it in terms of a JRPG. If you're expecting mega faced paced the whole way through, you won't get it. The game has a WONDEROUS storyline, a battle system that is pretty ace so far, with a great shakycam, gears of war style effect as they run up to hit enemies, and endearing characters! Even Kaim, although if you don't read the dreams, you lose a lot of him as a character.

Nitpicking and Sakaguchi-bashing to get a rise as someone suggested I think will be the name of the game.

This is obviously sensible but then at the same time you can argue that Trauma Centre should get 10/10 cos it's the best surgery sim out there.

I do agree with you though, moaning about common JRPG standards is a bit daft, or at least reflect it in the review that you're taking it as an entire game rather than a good game from within it's genre....

'If you like this sort of game, you'll like it' is always a slightly weak line for a review

PS. I love the sound of a mega faced paced game

[GViper]

This is obviously sensible but then at the same time you can argue that Trauma Centre should get 10/10 cos it's the best surgery sim out there.

I do agree with you though, moaning about common JRPG standards is a bit daft, or at least reflect it in the review that you're taking it as an entire game rather than a good game from within it's genre....

'If you like this sort of game, you'll like it' is always a slightly weak line for a review

PS. I love the sound of a mega faced paced game

True with the trauma centre game there, but I think with that, as it's a genre starter, you'd need to take it on it's own merits

Lost Oddysey is a very very true to the genre game, and in my opinion is a bloody SHINING example. It bears more than a passing resemblance to the PS1 era FF games, which is no bad thing!

I think as a reviewer, you'd need to understand that no, this probably isn't going to appeal to people who don't like JRPG's (though from personal experience, it has tempted a few people to get into the genre) and I think that needs to be reflected in a review!

[b00dles]

True with the trauma centre game there, but I think with that, as it's a genre starter, you'd need to take it on it's own merits

Lost Oddysey is a very very true to the genre game, and in my opinion is a bloody SHINING example. It bears more than a passing resemblance to the PS1 era FF games, which is no bad thing!

I think as a reviewer, you'd need to understand that no, this probably isn't going to appeal to people who don't like JRPG's (though from personal experience, it has tempted a few people to get into the genre) and I think that needs to be reflected in a review!

I'm totally in agreement with you. It comes across like the guy is likely to moan that FPS games have a gun in the middle of the screen or something...

A 'proper' JRPG should have emo characters and faffing with your party and all that sort of stuff, then it isn't a 'true' JRPG. An automatic win for me is if the game starts with you being woken up by your mum, then you're onto a winner.

[Taurus]

So I'm on disc 3 now, and it definitely has ups and downs (and I did find myself getting a *little* bit annoyed by the load times this afternoon). But so far it is, in my opinion, better than DQVIII and FFXII which were the last two JRPGs that I rated. And I don't care how pedantic you want to be about that Gamesradar review (I haven't even read it), it is completely factually inaccurate (for the first half of the game at least) to say that using the wrong rings, or not creating rings, or whatever, screws you when you reach the bosses. I haven't created any rings since about the first half hour and I haven't been screwed by any bosses since bogimoray (which I wasn't screwed by, I just started again, because I wanted to check something). The only time I've felt the need to change my equipped rings was in one section of the game where one of my characters couldn't cause damage to a certain enemy, but it wasn't a boss, and I wasn't screwed, because all my other characters could cause plenty of damage.

[isogashii]

An automatic win for me is if the game starts with you being woken up by your mum, then you're onto a winner.

This is so, so true I can't think of a single game that has started that way (which I've played) that's been a disappointment. A mark of quality indeed!

[SteveH]

My only real problem I have got with this game, is the way it handles each characters turn in battle. They seem to follow a logical pattern, but boss fights show up an annoying problem.

I was fighting the boss at Crimson Forest and one of my party members got killed. I choose a character to revive them and try to work it so that I can follow up with zephyr to heal everyone. But of course, the game screws up the turn based order when using an item and so the character is revived, then the boss immediately takes a turn, kills the revived character (because they are revived with minimal health. So next time I try another character to do the revive, and again, they immediately use the item straightaway followed by the boss taking a turn.

If the fight had followed previous and following patterns when everyone is alive, then it wouldn't be a problem. But it doesn't, and they also don't allow you to queue up a healing potion for the downed character like some RPG's do. Most annoying.

I may not have explained that very well. But I'm sure anyone who has been killed by that boss in particular will know what I'm talking about.

[Raff]

That's exactly what I was about to post about. In turn based combat I like to be able to cue up commands, for example if a character goes down I'll have one guy revive, the next guy heal and maybe have someone cast a shield over everyone.

If I tried to do that in this,

1. I wouldn't be able to cast heal or use an item on the dead person because I can't select them until they've been revived

2. Even if I could the healing would take place before the guy is revived

3. The shield spell probably would too.

Apart from that though, I really like the combat. It lets me go as fast or as slow as I like. I hate it when every little event and transition takes forever in JRPGs, and this is honestly the first one I've played that doesn't feel like it's intentionally sucking little bits of time out of every action during combat. It's actually proper exciting once you've learnt its eccentricities.

[Rudderless]

I think the nature of using items immediately is useful for the most part and if you're bothered about reviving someone only for them to be knocked out again immediately, then you're best off using Heal which will likely be done after the enemy's attack. Or just Taunt them to focus on another character rather than the one with low HP.

If your party's struggling and you just need a couple of attacks to finish the enemy off, it's nice to be able to lob a couple of Winda Bombs (or whatever) to get them before they can get you.

[SteveH]

I love the combat as well. It's just that annoyance that suddenly the teams turns get screwed up if you use an item. I literally used god knows how many revives because I wanted my whole team to be alive at the end of the boss fight, but I was stuck in a loop until the boss decided to use his turn to do something other than lash out.

It makes planning out the fights harder than they need to be, especially with the big difficulty spike that occurs when you reach a boss.

It's a tiny niggle though and I am just loving this so far. I thought I was playing at my usual pace for an RPG and was pleasantly surprised to find disc 1 took me just under 14 hours. So I'm not too worried about game length now, especially after reading how some folk finished disc 1 in around 6 hours - though how they did that I'll never know!

I'm liking Jansen a lot as well. I would like to think that the ex Shadowheart team members had a hand in moulding him. I think he has that Shadowhearts wackiness about him.

[Sprite Machine]

See, now you're just being pedantic. And when I said 'more than just different points of view' I didn't mean that those statements were facts, just silly - and redundant - arguments. It reads like it's been written by someone who's never played a jRPG in his life, and has just read the FF page on Wikipedia for research. His point about the game's 'concessions' suggests as much.

Anyway, I've wasted too long on this today. I wish I'd never posted the damn thing now, even though I was just trying to be helpful.

No, that's fine, I appreciate what you're saying, but I was only ever commenting on your first point that the review was full of falsehoods (ie. not just exaggerations or unfair comments or harshness or lazy journalism). Since you didn't initially elaborate when you mentioned it, it came across as quite misleading. But subsequent explanations have helped clear things up.

And I don't care how pedantic you want to be about that Gamesradar review (I haven't even read it), it is completely factually inaccurate (for the first half of the game at least) to say that using the wrong rings, or not creating rings, or whatever, screws you when you reach the bosses.

*Sigh*. I don't want to keep on about this, but it is emphatically not a factual matter to describe something as "screwing you". And to point so out is no more pedantic than pointing out that 7 isn't a letter of the alphabet. It just isn't, okay? Disagree with his points all you want; you've argued them well. Just don't talk bollocks.

By the way, I like the look of Lost Odyssey and will probably end up getting it and disagreeing with every word lazyradar bloke said. Just so you know.

[Monkeyboy]

The only thing I agree with in that GR review is the bit about that single strand of hair in front of his face. I wish he'd tuck it behind his ear. Or lose it in a random battle with some sort of Scissor Monster. Anyway, enjoying it so far, but then I've only just arrived at

Grand Staff

on disc 1.

[Taurus]

*Sigh*. I don't want to keep on about this, but it is emphatically not a factual matter to describe something as "screwing you". And to point so out is no more pedantic than pointing out that 7 isn't a letter of the alphabet. It just isn't, okay? Disagree with his points all you want; you've argued them well. Just don't talk bollocks.

He has asserted as a fact that you are screwed if you don't fiddle with your rings. That is factually incorrect, because I didn't fiddle with my rings and I wasn't screwed by any bosses. I understand that you think that 'screwed' is a word that is open to some interpretation (ie. that my idea of getting screwed by a boss, and his idea of getting screwed by a boss might not be the same) and so it can't be referred to as a 'fact'. But actually that's why he is factually incorrect to assert that the game screws the player - because he has asserted as a fact that the game screws you if you don't fiddle with your rings, and it emphatically didn't screw me. If he said the game screwed him then it would be factually correct. Here are some definitions of 'fact' to help you, by the way.

[Monkeyboy]

All this talk of fiddling with rings and getting screwed by a boss... can we please get back on to the topic of Lost Odyssey?

[Sprite Machine]

He has asserted as a fact that you are screwed if you don't fiddle with your rings. That is factually incorrect, because I didn't fiddle with my rings and I wasn't screwed by any bosses. I understand that you think that 'screwed' is a word that is open to some interpretation (ie. that my idea of getting screwed by a boss, and his idea of getting screwed by a boss might not be the same) and so it can't be referred to as a 'fact'. But actually that's why he is factually incorrect to assert that the game screws the player - because he has asserted as a fact that the game screws you if you don't fiddle with your rings, and it emphatically didn't screw me. If he said the game screwed him then it would be factually correct. Here are some definitions of 'fact' to help you, by the way.

You're confusing cause and effect. Because the statement is inherently subjective, it's impossible to 'assert it as a fact' in the first place, hence he didn't, hence it isn't factually incorrect.

[Tom_B]

I literally used god knows how many revives because I wanted my whole team to be alive at the end of the boss fight, but I was stuck in a loop until the boss decided to use his turn to do something other than lash out.

The way items always come first is a bit of an oversight (also: the way save points don't heal you, but when you load a game you have full health), but it's just as well there's no real reason to keep everyone alive at the end of a battle. Your characters only go up one level at a time, and it'll probably take only one or two battles in the next area to get them back up to speed.

[Taurus]

You're confusing cause and effect. Because the statement is inherently subjective, it's impossible to 'assert it as a fact' in the first place, hence he didn't, hence it isn't factually incorrect.

That's your opinion.

[Rudderless]

That's your opinion.

[Talk Show Host]

I love the combat as well. It's just that annoyance that suddenly the teams turns get screwed up if you use an item. I literally used god knows how many revives because I wanted my whole team to be alive at the end of the boss fight, but I was stuck in a loop until the boss decided to use his turn to do something other than lash out.

It makes planning out the fights harder than they need to be, especially with the big difficulty spike that occurs when you reach a boss.

I get the feeling that Mistwalker wanted to do something so LO feels a little different as far as turn based battles go. They probably did not know what to do though and ended up messing the turn system. It is not a big mess, but it's never explained properly. I find myself confused despite the small tutorial, which of course it may mean I am stupid or did not pay proper attention because I thought it would be like all turn based systems. Sometimes I know what is going on, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I can explain why a turn happened, sometimes I can't understand why a player missed his turn (as has happened some times with

Cooke on Crimson Forest

). I would appreciate if someone who has grasped the whole thing could explain -exactly- what 1A or 1G or 3H means. I know the numbers are the casting length in turns but the letters keep confusing me.

Also, I find the lack of feedback in the battles and the spell description appalling. I cast 'All-Shield'. Great. How long will it take before it wears off so I can cast it again? Is it more powerful than 'Cover'? If so, how much? Spell description is also vague and that is something I hate in RPGs. I am not asking D&D specifics here. Just a more detailed description of the spell, how much it lasts, etc. Unless of course this information is provided and somehow I've missed it.

Generally though the battle system works very well for me (and I hate the logic of random encounters). They are not too many, their pace can be dictated by the player, the ring system is fun since you can equip the rings without losing your turn, the wall system is good and can sometimes be very important. Again though, sometimes, it does something I can't understand. For example, in the

Crimson Forest, the final Boss

, I had my two front row characters in their full health (910 & 760), and my two back row chars with their HP in the middle. Yet, my "wall" showed only 360HP. Its probably me being stupid or not paying proper attention, but I really think those things are not explained properly.

In other news, it is a wonderful RPG and atm leaps and bounds above ME in terms of storytelling, characters and writing. Facial expressions are also excellently done most of the times, which is a major achievement considering how difficult it is for game characters to portray emotions, let alone the emotions LO deals with. I still laugh at the Gamespy review that describes the expressions of the game's characters as a failure. It is sad that many sites seem too eager to dismiss this because it does not have a FF name on the title. That's games' journalism for you though.

More as I go.

[hoot]

I think a casting time of 1S means the spell will generally go off as soon as it's the caster's turn to fight, 1A will normally put his/her move at the end of everyone's turn (enemy included) and anything longer than that will require waiting turns, not sure on specifics though as I'm only about 8 hours in so far.

[Talk Show Host]

I think a casting time of 1S means the spell will generally go off as soon as it's the caster's turn to fight, 1A will normally put his/her move at the end of everyone's turn (enemy included) and anything longer than that will require waiting turns, not sure on specifics though as I'm only about 8 hours in so far.

Many thnx. What do the other letters mean though? It goes until H I think.

[hoot]

H would mean it would take say 6 turns to cast, B would be 2, something along them lines anyway.

[Talk Show Host]

H would mean it would take say 6 turns to cast, B would be 2, something along them lines anyway.

Isn't that what the numbers represent?

[Rudderless]

Isn't that what the numbers represent?

The numbers represent how many turns, with the letters representing how long within that turn it takes. So if you do something that's 1A, it's likely you'll be going first, unless your enemy's got a very high attack speed. 2C will see your character starting a spell, and likely finishing it halfway through the next turn. 1H and you're looking at the very end of your first go, probably after all the enemies have had a pop.

As for your GC - enemies have certain attacks that weaken that, so it can drop lower than the combined HP of your front row. Though he's only tiny, it's not a bad idea to stick Mack in the front row on occasion, especially if you're likely to be using a couple of casters in the back.

[toythatkills]

I love the combat as well. It's just that annoyance that suddenly the teams turns get screwed up if you use an item. I literally used god knows how many revives because I wanted my whole team to be alive at the end of the boss fight, but I was stuck in a loop until the boss decided to use his turn to do something other than lash out.

It makes planning out the fights harder than they need to be, especially with the big difficulty spike that occurs when you reach a boss.

That's not a problem with the system, it's fully explained in game why it is so. Spells have been casting after everyone elses turn for the entire game you've been playing so far, so I'm not sure why it surprises you when it happens with a boss. As has been said, there's plenty of techniques to use to get around it

[Talk Show Host]

The numbers represent how many turns, with the letters representing how long within that turn it takes. So if you do something that's 1A, it's likely you'll be going first, unless your enemy's got a very high attack speed. 2C will see your character starting a spell, and likely finishing it halfway through the next turn. 1H and you're looking at the very end of your first go, probably after all the enemies have had a pop.

As for your GC - enemies have certain attacks that weaken that, so it can drop lower than the combined HP of your front row. Though he's only tiny, it's not a bad idea to stick Mack in the front row on occasion, especially if you're likely to be using a couple of casters in the back.

Cheers for clearing that up. Actually, I put Mack at the front as soon as I got him, he has good physical attack and a quite large mana pool. I like to consider him as a battle mage of shorts, able to offer a bit of diversion in the front row melee attacks. Cooke and Jensen are in the back, with the first one usually casting support to the latter for some quick AoE spells like Prism. I also love Cooke's Prayer. Lovely skill.

I am trying to escape the palace of Numara atm

. This is getting better and better for me.

[toythatkills]

Cooke's best spell is cover, that's an amazing thing.

Makes the game really easy though

[b00dles]

I still miss Grandia's turn based fighting, being able to knock back enemies so that you can string attacks together and so on was brilliant.

I do hate in pretty much all JRPG's when the enemy can somehow attack immediately revived characters even though that character would have been down and unselectable if the AI had the same battle controls as the player did, always thought that was daft.

[Arn X Treme]

Just got my copy through the post through UPS, with a sweet £17.65 handling charge. Won't use UPS for shipping anymore. Looking forward to giving this a go once i've played some more DMC4.

[Monkeyboy]

Just got my copy through the post through UPS, with a sweet £17.65 handling charge. Won't use UPS for shipping anymore. Looking forward to giving this a go once i've played some more DMC4.

Yep, avoid UPS and their ilk like the plague. Did you get it from play-asia? Go for their cheapest delivery option. It still arrives pretty quickly. My copy of LO took about 5 days to arrive.