Destiny: FIN

[Lyrical Donut]

Whatever the theoretical systems at work here, I know that so far even VoG's drops felt fairer, and more rewarding, than King's Fall's do.

I dunno, it took months for people to get VoG helmets, let alone ones with decent rolls. Duplicate gear was sharded for shards and energy, which became useless mid-way through Year 1. At least duplicates in KF (including the normal drops in HM) can go some way to improving gear that you like. Smart loot definitely needs smartening up a tad though, I definitely don't want any more fusion rifles.

[Nate Dogg III]

Yeah it's easy to look back at VoG with rose tinted glasses a bit. There were plenty of weeks where I got nothing of use whatsoever. Early days but every king's fall run has produced something of use, even if it's just fodder.

[mechamonkey]

Argh, I was wondering why the final stage for Touch of Malice wouldn't pop on my Hunter as according to this I have 46/50 fragments, turns out when checking the Dreadnaut map screen I have 43/50 on THAT CHARACTER, I wonder which ones I'm missing? what a pain.

[Gorf King]

Like Nate, I don't believe there's a 'smart loot' system at all: I don't see any evidence of it in effect.

I agree that it took months for some people to get that last piece of armour from VoG - three months would be 12-13 runs - but what I'm saying is that, for some of us at least, this is being even more stingy. After over a month my Warlock has one piece of raid armour, not two or three. The same every time. And that phenomenon is exacerbated by the fact that my Hunter - who's now had two pieces of armour in the same timeframe - has one that is actually useful, because 300 light really isn't useful at all when you consider than you can regularly have an exotic drop in everyday play at 310, and Nightfalls can give you drops of legendaries up to 310 light. It's not uncommon to have 'normal' legendaries drop (NF) or be infused to between 300 and 310 by now, so 300-light raid drops are just about useless. You even get blues at or about that level (298-300), many times over.

I accept that you may well have had a useful drop in every raid run, but I haven't. Some of the runs are literally useless in terms of rewards. Perhaps, just as I may have been unlucky, you've been lucky? But there are others I've raided with who've had nothing drop at all above the levels of two or more pieces they already have in that same slot.

I don't think random light levels should have been there in raid gear - the raid should be the exception to that rule (perks, yeah, maybe randomise them, but not light level). I think they should drop at 310* for normal or 320* for hard mode. I think you should get a roll of the die for the item itself, but if you get it, it should be a great weapon/armour piece that makes you go 'whoop!' and break out one of those expensive dances. Not the slightly cheaper grief emote. That should be for when you don't get the item you need - not for when you do, but it's shit. It's one roll of the die too far for me, for a reward for the endgame activity.

* For those who think this is OP, this wouldn't have boosted me any higher than I am on my Warlock, as I have the boots at 310. And my Hunter would be about 3 points higher light than he is, maybe 4 (EDIT: he'd only be 2 points higher). He'd be about 311 ~310 now, that's all. Simply due to the items I need not dropping in the first place, which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the extra roll on top of that when you do get them.

[Lyrical Donut]

I've been using 300 raid drops for infusing for the most part - bringing up my void/arc/solar chests and sniper boots to high 290s, then relying on 310 exotics to push them over. I've not insta-scrapped a single piece yet, but probably will be soon. Sounds like you've had shit luck with armour drops though.

I've mostly found the raid-specific perks to be pretty redundant too. Although last night my floufy bloody warlock could've done with some of that extra agility!

[Oz]

Well I think all these opinions are valid but one point to note. you may get gauntlets that are not higher than the higher ones you have but like Nate said they are useful to upgrade something else with a different roll and bring it closer. I could get 10 fusions on a roll and just end up with 10 different upgraded special weapons. Issue is that for people who have raided 100 times since the new raid came out there will ALWAYS be a ceiling, it is impossible to keep you from eventually having everything and not needing any of the drops. If they make more weapons you will just play a ton more to get them. So that is not fixable. What they could fix they have fixed in my opinion with infusion. The issue is people who just play an unreasonable amount of destiny and people who want everything when they have just played a tiny bit.

EDIT: To sum up, you are playing it wrong.

[Jerec]

I've been using 300 raid drops for infusing for the most part - bringing up my void/arc/solar chests and sniper boots to high 290s, then relying on 310 exotics to push them over. I've not insta-scrapped a single piece yet, but probably will be soon. Sounds like you've had shit luck with armour drops though.

I've mostly found the raid-specific perks to be pretty redundant too. Although last night my floufy bloody warlock could've done with some of that extra agility!

I don't know how often Gorf plays, but I know you Lyrical and Nate too it seems play this a lot more then most, the way that post sounds is like you've been swimming in 310 exotic emblems, whilst myself, that really only has a few hours an evening to play, and one character to focus on means less Raiding time, less drops, less Exotics.

So I can understand his frustration and I agree with it, the loot drops are not good enough considering the level we are at.

Well I think all these opinions are valid but one point to note. you may get gauntlets that are not higher than the higher ones you have but like Nate said they are useful to upgrade something else with a different roll and bring it closer. I could get 10 fusions on a roll and just end up with 10 different upgraded special weapons. Issue is that for people who have raided 100 times since the new raid came out there will ALWAYS be a ceiling, it is impossible to keep you from eventually having everything and not needing any of the drops. If they make more weapons you will just play a ton more to get them. So that is not fixable. What they could fix they have fixed in my opinion with infusion. The issue is people who just play an unreasonable amount of destiny and people who want everything when they have just played a tiny bit.

I don't think Gorf fits on that category.

[Oz]

Full runs of VoG with nothing to show for it was a very very very common occurrence (and the reason for many quitting the game), regardless of how often you had raided. I have only done a full raid maybe 4 times? And I have a decent set of things: shotgun, scout, ghost, legs, fusion (of course), rockets, machine gun, 310 monte carlo, and one pumpkin head this week (lol). So what I don't have everything, it gives me a reason for coming back. The one other thought I had about people who complain hard raid drops aren't good enough, just as a reminder, they are black!! for fucks sake!! what more could you want.

[Oz]

I don't think random light levels should have been there in raid gear - the raid should be the exception to that rule (perks, yeah, maybe randomise them, but not light level). I think they should drop at 310* for normal or 320* for hard mode. I think you should get a roll of the die for the item itself, but if you get it, it should be a great weapon/armour piece that makes you go 'whoop!' and break out one of those expensive dances.

Well that makes all the sense Gorf. I cannot disagree with that (to use a double negative).

[Lyrical Donut]

You don't necessarily have to play way too much Destiny. If you're mid 300-310s you should be able to get a couple of boss drops on HM.

We ran through to death singers x3 last week and most of us had enough stuff to pass around to get our alts to 310+. Once you're over 310 exotic engrams decrypt at 310, so that helps with getting your legendaries up to snuff too.

[Oz]

You don't necessarily have to play way too much Destiny.

I kind of want to though.

[Lyrical Donut]

I'd rather have a job at this point!

[Nate Dogg III]

Like Nate, I don't believe there's a 'smart loot' system at all: I don't see any evidence of it in effect.

I agree that it took months for some people to get that last piece of armour from VoG - three months would be 12-13 runs - but what I'm saying is that, for some of us at least, this is being even more stingy. After over a month my Warlock has one piece of raid armour, not two or three. The same every time. And that phenomenon is exacerbated by the fact that my Hunter - who's now had two pieces of armour in the same timeframe - has one that is actually useful, because 300 light really isn't useful at all when you consider than you can regularly have an exotic drop in everyday play at 310, and Nightfalls can give you drops of legendaries up to 310 light. It's not uncommon to have 'normal' legendaries drop (NF) or be infused to between 300 and 310 by now, so 300-light raid drops are just about useless. You even get blues at or about that level (298-300), many times over.

I accept that you may well have had a useful drop in every raid run, but I haven't. Some of the runs are literally useless in terms of rewards. Perhaps, just as I may have been unlucky, you've been lucky? But there are others I've raided with who've had nothing drop at all above the levels of two or more pieces they already have in that same slot.

I don't think random light levels should have been there in raid gear - the raid should be the exception to that rule (perks, yeah, maybe randomise them, but not light level). I think they should drop at 310* for normal or 320* for hard mode. I think you should get a roll of the die for the item itself, but if you get it, it should be a great weapon/armour piece that makes you go 'whoop!' and break out one of those expensive dances. Not the slightly cheaper grief emote. That should be for when you don't get the item you need - not for when you do, but it's shit. It's one roll of the die too far for me, for a reward for the endgame activity.

* For those who think this is OP, this wouldn't have boosted me any higher than I am on my Warlock, as I have the boots at 310. And my Hunter would be about 3 points higher light than he is, maybe 4 (EDIT: he'd only be 2 points higher). He'd be about 311 ~310 now, that's all. Simply due to the items I need not dropping in the first place, which wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the extra roll on top of that when you do get them.

I think fixed 310/320 raid drops would just get everyone to the cap a bit too quickly, from Bungie's perspective anyway. Somewhere in the middle - say 305-310 for normal, 315-320 for hard - might have been a better fit.

I do think raising the cap to 320 for hard mode was a mistake. It's made other activities and drops less meaningful, and even hurt the raid itself, since you get one normal and one hard roll per checkpoint, and only one of those is exciting. If they'd kept it at 310 and we were getting two potential useful drops each time it'd be a lot more rewarding I think. A couple of times the other night I got a 300 light normal drop and an empty hard mode drop which is just so deflating.

[Gorf King]

Yup, you can cut the maths up in different ways, but the current system, now we've normal and hard mode raids, just feels out of whack in terms of raid rewards. Running normal feels like a waste of time (there's no stuff you can get from it that's useful for HM, unlike the NM other raids if you haven't, say, got VoC or the arms yet), and making half of your HM drops pretty useless for HM is daft - possible infusions aside, which aren't really that useful to me (except to level up that useless but purty cloak with the mouldy leaves on it that matches my eyes). It just guarantees at least a 50% duff drop rate in HM.

So whatever our mathematical and semantic differences, I think we're all agreed that Bungie are bias, Destiny is shit and Activision is the eye of the devil's cock. Fuck this game, I'm out. No-one will be playing it once Halo 5 6 comes out anyway.

[Nate Dogg III]

At some point they're going to have to push the max exotic drop up to 320 which should help a bit. A load of year one exotics are now in the bungie armoury at 330, so it's just a matter of time. My problem with it at the moment isn't the raid drops themselves but the way they are now the be all and end all of the loot game - there's nothing else worth doing for the rest of the week now (from a gear perspective - obviously the game itself is still fun). Three Of Coins and Infusion were strokes of genius that gave meaning, or potential meaning, to everything you did in the game. Hard Mode has killed it.

[Jerec]

You don't necessarily have to play way too much Destiny. If you're mid 300-310s you should be able to get a couple of boss drops on HM.

We ran through to death singers x3 last week and most of us had enough stuff to pass around to get our alts to 310+. Once you're over 310 exotic engrams decrypt at 310, so that helps with getting your legendaries up to snuff too.

I know you don't need to play lots of Destiny, but when you are running one character and one raid a week, you can get all the way to Oryx with potentially a hand full of Muldering shards. I almost did. I only got loot from Golgorth, the other bits inc chests were just shards, and even then, both the chest piece was the gloves were mediocre, and only good for infusing. And I know this is one part of the thing that Bungie added, but the other side is that we want to get loot we can wear off the hook, like the ol' days. But perhaps thats us not evolving like Destiny has...?

[berties paw]

My experience is saying the "smart" loot system is actually working in reverse, it seems to give me more of what I already have rather than something new.

7 Oryx kills - 7 class items, 0 Helms

Golgoroth - Dunno how many kills, at least 10 normal, and a couple on hard so plenty chances for armour drops - 5 pairs of boots, 2 chests, 0 gloves

FWC Rank up packages - 16 ranks I've gone up since TTK launched. I've had the cloak 6 times from these, there are 11 items in the pool to choose from.

Legendary Heavy Weapon Engrams - I've had about 12-15 of these, and I always get 1 of 3 weapons Ruin Wake, Choleric Dragon or Diluvian 10/4x.

Sitting at 311 light and I cash in a primary legendary engram last night - 273 Auto Rifle. RNGee thanks for that you twat.

[Jerec]

My experience is saying the "smart" loot system is actually working in reverse, it seems to give me more of what I already have rather than something new.

7 Oryx kills - 7 class items, 0 Helms

Golgoroth - Dunno how many kills, at least 10 normal, and a couple on hard so plenty chances for armour drops - 5 pairs of boots, 2 chests, 0 gloves

FWC Rank up packages - 16 ranks I've gone up since TTK launched. I've had the cloak 6 times from these, there are 11 items in the pool to choose from.

Legendary Heavy Weapon Engrams - I've had about 12-15 of these, and I always get 1 of 3 weapons Ruin Wake, Choleric Dragon or Diluvian 10/4x.

Sitting at 311 light and I cash in a primary legendary engram last night - 273 Auto Rifle. RNGee thanks for that you twat.

I've had the exact same shit, 6 The Smoulder, 5 Zhalo's, 3 Light Beyond Nemisis etc etc.

At worst, it should cap at the lowest 10 of your Light, so if your 311, the lowest you get is 310, if your 297, the lowest you can get is 290.

[Nate Dogg III]

I could build a house out of spare Diluvians.

[KartoffelKopf]

I've had the exact same shit, 6 The Smoulder, 5 Zhalo's, 3 Light Beyond Nemisis etc etc.

At worst, it should cap at the lowest 10 of your Light, so if your 311, the lowest you get is 310, if your 297, the lowest you can get is 290.

*shakes fist

I've not had a single one.

Feel like 3 of coins has not been working at all this week. I did 5 strikes, 2 nightfalls and a vault of glass yesterday and not a single yellow

All these arguments are valid and yes, Bungie have done a great deal to make any drop useful but there needs to be a perception of fairness in it all to keep people playing. Getting 8 of the same gauntlets IN A ROW makes me wonder why I bother when I still have Witcher 3 sitting unplayed. Obviously I'll keep playing as I'm hopelessly addicted like a dime store crack whore, but still, my point stands.

Anyway, this is fun.

http://youtu.be/Hz-iH1AQSn0

[Mr Ben]

I have posted this before, but I think infusing fixes the the loot system. What's the issue with a repeat level 310 exotic which allows you to infuse another legendary you really like. Or any bit of gear you then what to try. There is literally no issue with a repeat. I just don't understand that. Even if for nothing else you get weapon parts!

Well it cant fix what I cant get that's for sure. One ghost is all I've had from the raid, a 300 one, and that was on an alt. If I had no alts, then I'd still have a ghost at 295. Just feels like I'm being jipped when everyone else and their dog, cat, parrot, you fucking name it, has had at least one higher than 300.

[Shimmyhill]

I did at least 5 VOG runs without getting a single bit of armour but multiple Visions and felwinters, I had so many Vsions at one point all 3 characters had a spare - Crota never gave me anything of note in all the times I did it, still not got a black hammer

I think we are forgetting what a chore it was to get radiant shards and energy to level up the under levied raid gear to then get a better roll on that raid piece the time you ran it with your newly levelled up piece!

Giving you 310 and 320 drops would just mean within a month you would have nothing to do, all 3 characters at 320 and 10 months to whine about having nothing to do/get/aim for - the repeat drops with varying light levels are the radiant shards and there to give you a reason to play other than it being fun and to still give that moment of hope to be dashed with another shitty bit I already have but ohh I can put it to use on my other character!

Having ones cake and eating it lads, be careful as cake is bad for you

[Weavus]

*shakes fist

I've not had a single one.

I'm also suffering from a Zhalo drought. Had 7 last words though

I've also killed Atheon 32 times without getting a VoC.

[Mr Ben]

Maybe this raid is making up for my good luck in VoG, as I pretty much got all the guns (except the fusion rifle I think, oddly enough considering how much the game *needs* me to use them it seems), and also multiples of them. The armour drops were always rubbish though, at least in the stats department (all strength and discipline).

I only just remembered I've not had a helm drop once on my Titan either, but had 2 drop on my Hunter, one for each clear I've done with her.

[Gorf King]

Giving you 310 and 320 drops would just mean within a month you would have nothing to do

As explained - no, it wouldn't. My Warlock would still have just the one piece of raid armour, at 310 light, just as he has now. My Hunter would still have two - but at 310 apiece instead of at 302 and 300. He'd have gained 1.8 levels overall from his armour drops if they were all 310 - it's been a month and a half, and I'd still have plenty to do (not least, actually beat the HM raid, and enough times to get all the HM drops - and then we'll have the challenge modes to follow).

So it wouldn't give me nothing to do - I'd have the HM raid (after I've got enough pieces from NM), and then the challenge modes, but the difference would be that while playing these activities the drops would feel satisfying when I get them instead of the disappointment they usually are now even when I do get a new item drop. I think it'd be a far better balance. I don't want to have the raid artificially extended for two or three months just to get the gear to drop, and then to have to keep playing for another two or three just for each piece to drop at a high enough light level to get me to max level. It's a question of balance, and I don't think it's correct right now with the loot system as it is.

You could argue it's never quite been right, but adding the extra tier - the second roll for raid gear - isn't helping. It feels like padding the content out at the moment to me, and while there's always been an issue with this, it feels more pronounced than ever with the way they've introduced the two-drop system and the two-roll system we now have in HM raids.

[Shimmyhill]

Im not an MMO player but from what I'm told by MMO playing friends what you want is exactly the opposite to how raiding works, you are meant to do it over and over to get the best drops and not being guaranteed stuff that drops being the best or the carrot will go.

Also and maybe I misheard this but afaik you don't get 320 drops until you are 310?

And you are trying to say that you wouldn't be done based on the RNG YOU have had - you have no idea what would have dropped so you could be done already if that system was already in place

I haven't felt like I got good drops but in my 2 goes at the raid (not finished yet, got to Oryx once and sisters other time) I have had the fusion rifle, 2 chests mid 300s and some arms - it felt like every chest I got gave me nothing but appears not.

Mixed in with the odd 310 exotic since I went over 300 and I'm 303 with a ghost in the low 290s and that is with weapons/armour I want to use - my RNG may have been better than yours in the limited time I have played it but I don't feel too bad off thus far.

Im not saying its perfect but I think guaranteed light level drops is not the way forward, some kind of middle ground where the 'smart' RNG looks at what you have and current light level you are and does you a better deal - it still needs to have RNG on that IMO.

[SpagMasterSwift]

I just want to have more than one Candy Sack at a time so I don't have to play one Control match and then head back to the Tower to empty it/pick up a new one...

[Gorf King]

Also and maybe I misheard this but afaik you don't get 320 drops until you are 310?

You can get 320 (specifically, 310-320 drops) from the HM raid, which you don't have to be 310 to do part, or even all, of. Though obviously it'll be a lot harder to do the last part(s) if you're under 310 - but you can get (and I have got) drops at over 310 on the earlier stages whatever your level.

[Mr Ben]

Yeah I got a 319 sniper rifle, which I think is my highest drop in game, next highest is err 314 I think on my arms I got last night.

I also got the raid machine gun last night on HM. At 310

Edit: Its just for funsies LeChuck. The Oryx and flaming skull do look cool though. I dont have them though, obviously.

[Gorf King]

It progresses it to new levels of fun.