Destiny: FIN

[Loki]

Also guys, I discovered last night that transferring Motes of Life, Strange Coins and other such rare items can be done through the vault.

I'm assuming I could run the Weekly Strike on my Titan for the 3 Strange Coins. Then do it again on my Hunter and transfer them across.

ez katka

[NecroMorrius]

Wow, I can afford the sunbreakers AND that rocket launcher.

[Curtis]

Is it a better item? You can only equip one bit of exotic gear and one exotic weapon, so choose carefully!

Oh really. This i did not know. Any reason?

The chest armour has 3 decent perks on top of good Intellect boost. I may have to bite the bullet on the Ascendant Shards i wasted upgrading my Legendary.

In other news: do i have you on my PSN friends list?

[NecroMorrius]

I don't think so, add me up: morrius-psn

Yeah you can only have one exotic weapon in your loadout, you can carry multiple I imagine.

[Loki]

Does anyone know of a decent resource with a list of the exotic items and their upgrades?

I was going to buy the exotic helm from Xur. But I don't play Striker much, so it's pointless.

[Gigga]

So pointless apart from serving the exact function they are there for?

I personally find the numbers really satisfying and its the most accurate way to convey to you exactly how your current set up of gear is working for you.

As the level of the enemies rise, so does the level of your gun. This is the very definition of pointless, because it doesn't indicate that your gun is better or that your skills are better, it just indicates that you have played longer and therefore got higher number next to your gun and over peoples heads.

I completely get the different gun elements and the additional qualities, like faster reload if you have headshotted etc.. that's good stuff, as are the things like different sights, steadier hand.. you know the variations... but there doesn't need to be a progression of gun quality unless there are those higher numbers above the heads and those numbers break the immersion and remind me that I'm just pressing buttons.

The numbers stop me feeling like I'm saving earth from monsters and make me feel like I'm moving my reticule over an arbitrary area and pressing a single button until numbers stop coming up, I'm focussed on the number, not the enemy.

It could have been handled in a much more natural way, with other visual or audio cues and the speed at which you can finish off the enemy giving you the feedback, the numbers are unnecessary apart from driving that primal instinct to gain higher numbers. Overall, there will be more longevity for me if I enjoy the experience, I'm not going to keep playing for higher and higher numbers but I'm aware that I'm massively in the minority in this as the success of WoW has proved.

[Captain Kelsten]

This type of game clearly isn't for you.

[Gigga]

This type of game clearly isn't for you.

So after years of playing Bungie's online shooters and the hundreds of hours I've put into them that's the answer? Sorry mate, your opinion isn't valid, we've done something different now, it's just for people who like this sort of thing.

This is the long term game, the big picture for Bungie and the only environment I'll be able to interact with their output and I don't meet the entrance criteria.

[Wavy]

So there is a great big, huge, massive engram farming exploit on Old Russia. I did it for an hour last night and came away with 15 blues, 3 purples and a shit load of discarded materials.

Does anyone fancy doing the weekly on heroic later?

[Captain Kelsten]

So after years of playing Bungie's online shooters and the hundreds of hours I've put into them that's the answer? Sorry mate, your opinion isn't valid, we've done something different now, it's just for people who like this sort of thing.

This is the long term game, the big picture for Bungie and the only environment I'll be able to interact with their output and I don't meet the entrance criteria.

Essentially, yes. They've tried something different, it doesn't appeal to you. It's a shame Bungie didn't check with you before embarking on this, but we are where we are.

Oh, you do meet the entrance criteria, you just don't like them. There's a key difference.

[kerraig UK]

The whole thing you described with enemies only being killed with specific weapons is exactly how the game works. Only it's done by elemental type rather than weapon type. And the bit about needing two types of projectiles at once happens often too. Last night Banjaxed and I had to co-ordinate our attacks on a bunch of wizards, with me taking their fire shields down with my fire shotgun and him nuking their health bar down as quickly as possible while I reloaded my fire shotgun ready to hit the shields again as soon as they came back up. When we got bum-rushed by five wizards at once we juggled our supers, generating orbs of light for each other so we could keep recasting our supers. It would have been impossible if we hadn't coordinated the timing, target and damage type of our attacks.

See this part I have no problem with. Aside from being repetitive, the gameplay is mostly fun. It's the design around the gameplay I struggle with. What you describe is not exactly how the game works at all. It's exactly how the game works IF you are all within tolerant levels of each other. my level 8 elemental damage will do nothing to a level 23 elemental shield.

What I don't get is this, when you are level 5, and the enemy is level 5, lets say one bullet will do 5% damage to the enemy.

If you're then level 10, and the same enemy is level 10, i'm guessing one bullet will still do 5% damage to that enemy right?

If that's the case, then what benefit does levelling add to the game beyond making it impossible to play with some people? This isn't me being facetious, I genuinely don't understand the benefit.

Apart from the 'open from the start' thing, what you describe is broadly what Destiny is.

Providing you're all the same level.

[Jg15]

I really need to catch up on this. I only have a pathetic level 8 warlock (reserved purely for a play through I'm doing with a mate) and level 10 titan but whenever I'm online its populated by level 20 and upwards.

Still enjoying this whenever I play though. Did the second moon mission where you go deep underground fighting through the undead type race (forget what they are called) and it was very atmospheric, especially with added real life thunder and lightning we had last night. Can be a bit lonely though, need more people of same level to play with (xbone vers).

[kerraig UK]

The problem with that, is people like me become bored very quickly. Guild Wars 2 had the idea that PvP would be completely fair with gear sets being available to everyone, and you just pick and choose which bits you want and go from there.

It was great to begin with. Winning games based purely on skill instead of winning because I'd spent half my waking hours in arenas grinding out the very best new kit. But it soon got boring. There was no sense of progression. I needed that gear treadmill like WoW had to keep me going.

Surely that's still possible to implement. Just because you grind out new gear doesn't mean that certain Strike encounters couldn't require more than the usual tank and spank approach.

This to me is the most interesting post so far. This sounds to me like some sort of completionist addiction rather than you actively enjoying the gameplay.

I see this in BF a LOT (Hi Fishyfisharcade). People grinding away trying to get 100 headshots with a potato peeler because at the end of it there's a badge. Very rarely does it sound like they're having any fun.

It's clearly just different tastes, but I find it genuinely fascinating because never before has something so popular in gaming (loot and levelling) felt so alien to me.

[Stolly]

Well I for one love this game so far. I love the fact that I'm told not a lot and can just play the game and learn the 'world' on the hoof. I love the choices of gameplay, I love the fact that I can join in with others if I want to or hack along on my own. I love the fact that if a particular mission or bounty is too hard solo I can level up and go back, or team up and sort it there and then. The only thing that is not so good is that I don't have much free time to play but, hey ho, level 20 by Christmas

I must admit I'm not the greatest of fans of conventional first person shooters, although borderlands was good fun and I loved fallout 3 (not a conventional fps of course). Coming to this as an rpg player in the main and having had a full on obsession with FFXI for about 3 years solid (everyone loves their first MMORPG), this game feels really fresh and new. I'm getting a Demon's Souls feeling all over again

[Opinionated Ham Scarecrow]

To shoot is heavenly, but to loot is divine. Viva la loot

[Takizawa]

If I am part of the dead orbit faction, my crucible marks can be used to buy weapons and armor from the vendor but what can I do with the vanguard marks I get from strikes? Can these be used on non faction vendors? Starting to think I should have thought about my factions more instead of picking dead orbit because he looked saucy.

Vangaurd marks are for PvE gear (there are currently no factions), used to buy armour from your class vanguard vendor, or guns from the robot chappy down in the ship area.

[p1nseeker]

So there is a great big, huge, massive engram farming exploit on Old Russia. I did it for an hour last night and came away with 15 blues, 3 purples and a shit load of discarded materials.

Does anyone fancy doing the weekly on heroic later?

Care to share the details? I saw people shooting into a cave of respawning hive from a distance the other day, is that it?

[Loki]

my level 8 elemental damage will do nothing to a level 23 elemental shield.

And why should it? If the end goal is to be able to play with friends, it should be the higher level character being gimped to be in line with the lower level character so that you can still play together, but it's not cakewalk.

This to me is the most interesting post so far. This sounds to me like some sort of completionist addiction rather than you actively enjoying the gameplay.

I see this in BF a LOT (Hi Fishyfisharcade). People grinding away trying to get 100 headshots with a potato peeler because at the end of it there's a badge. Very rarely does it sound like they're having any fun.

It's clearly just different tastes, but I find it genuinely fascinating because never before has something so popular in gaming (loot and levelling) felt so alien to me.

It's not completionist as such (that would be hunting down grimoire scores and achievements in WoW which was never my thing), I think it's more I just fucking love loot man. Which is why I'm sad that both times I've seen purps drop, they're been wank blues.

In Battlefield, I never did the assignments either. A lot of them forced me to play in a way which I wasn't comfortable with (killing people with EOD bots or defibs or some shit). My only goal in Battlefield was to win, that was it.

I think for me. I just love having a character that feels my own and that I can progress into uber gear.

[Opinionated Ham Scarecrow]

I was doing the moon farming by Temple of Crota last night via vita remote play whilst watching Edge of Tomorrow with the missus. Got a dozen bloos, but no purples

[Sabreman]

I accidentally found out that if you're running and you hit crouch, you slide. I was as chuffed with that last night as anything else I did.

[kerraig UK]

And why should it? If the end goal is to be able to play with friends, it should be the higher level character being gimped to be in line with the lower level character so that you can still play together, but it's not cakewalk.

Thats sort of my point. If the end goal is to play with friends, there shouldnt be levels at all. There are about 5 Halo games that all play almost identically to Destiny, except you can have 4 players instead of 3 co-op, and someone who has played 1000 hours can play just fine with someone who has only just grabbed the game. His only advantage will be familiarity with the game.

[kerraig UK]

I accidentally found out that if you're running and you hit crouch, you slide. I was as chuffed with that last night as anything else I did.

I use this all the time in MP as after the slide you disappear from radar. Incredibly useful.

I made a vid yesterday showing people how to play defensively in the crucible, will upload now.

[Soi]

I've been thinking about playing with friends at lower levels. According to this table (source: http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2bjjzb/which_gun_is_best_for_you_a_more_in_depth_look_at/?sort=new), if you are a level 8, you get no bonus for shooting lower level enemies (in fact you get a penalty for shooting enemies much lower than you), and a strong penalty for shooting higher level enemies.

As a result, of this, it would seem that if you want to play with a low level friend, all you need to do is ensure that you pick a strike/mission appropriate for their level (i.e. pick a level 8 mission if they are level 8). If you want to deal similar damage to them, choose a gun with an attack value close to their gun's attack value.

So if I'm a level 20 with a 250 attack gun and want to play with a level 10 mate with a 99 attack gun, I get my level 10 mate to pick a level 10 Strike and I use a weaker gun than normal (the gunsmith sells greens). I could also put on some worse than usual armor to match my mate's defense stat.

Of course, it would be nice if the game had an option to do this normalizing for me, but does this all sound right? I'm at work and so cannot test.

[Timmo]

Thats sort of my point. If the end goal is to play with friends, there shouldnt be levels at all. There are about 5 Halo games that all play almost identically to Destiny, except you can have 4 players instead of 3 co-op, and someone who has played 1000 hours can play just fine with someone who has only just grabbed the game. His only advantage will be familiarity with the game.

Talking of Halo, last night I played the bit in Truth and Reconciliation when you board the ship and are attacked from all angles. Took me about half an hour to do one checkpoint and every time I died the enemies would come out in different orders and from different doors. As the battle wore on was swapping weapons on the battlefield and managing my grenade supply. Arguably Bungie have never bettered that specific slice of gameplay. That was 12 years ago now, and Bungie's new game has rigid spawning, swapping weapons is barely even possible in the heat of battle, and grenades and ammo regenerate. They have introduced a ton of systems but they've compromised a lot of what made their best game so good.

[kerraig UK]

I've been thinking about playing with friends at lower levels. According to this table (source: http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2bjjzb/which_gun_is_best_for_you_a_more_in_depth_look_at/?sort=new), if you are a level 8, you get no bonus for shooting lower level enemies (in fact you get a penalty for shooting enemies much lower than you), and a strong penalty for shooting higher level enemies.

As a result, of this, it would seem that if you want to play with a low level friend, all you need to do is ensure that you pick a strike/mission appropriate for their level (i.e. pick a level 8 mission if they are level 8). If you want to deal similar damage to them, choose a gun with an attack value close to their gun's attack value.

So if I'm a level 20 with a 250 attack gun and want to play with a level 10 mate with a 99 attack gun, I get my level 10 mate to pick a level 10 Strike and I use a weaker gun than normal (the gunsmith sells greens). I could also put on some worse than usual armor to match my mate's defense stat.

Of course, it would be nice if the game had an option to do this normalizing for me, but does this all sound right? I'm at work and so cannot test.

Ah thats interesting. What if you dont have a lower level gun, can you just buy one in the tower?

[Pob]

This to me is the most interesting post so far. This sounds to me like some sort of completionist addiction rather than you actively enjoying the gameplay.

I see this in BF a LOT (Hi Fishyfisharcade). People grinding away trying to get 100 headshots with a potato peeler because at the end of it there's a badge. Very rarely does it sound like they're having any fun.

It's clearly just different tastes, but I find it genuinely fascinating because never before has something so popular in gaming (loot and levelling) felt so alien to me.

The key differentiator is that it's not just badges you unlock. You get all sorts of different loot types that do different things and tie into an intricate economy that let you progress and unlock a vast array of different skills, modifiers and perks.

For example, I was going for headshots with my hand-cannon last night because:

a) it's fun

b) chaining them together was getting me a temporary quick reload

c) I was levelling up my hand cannon in general, working my way towards explosive rounds and other delights.

d) simply playing the game well is progressing me towards other sweet-sounding skills for my class, such as a critical kill with a throwing knife generating a new knife instantly.

Add to that that the fact that I now need to dismantle uncommon guns to generate parts to buy certain gun upgrades - which suddenly makes picking up guns I won't even use rewarding.

It's like this satisfying, fun-filled feedback loop where simply enjoying the gameplay and mixing up your gear nets rewards in lots of interdependent ways. The rewards are mostly not cosmetic - they add variety and open up new play modes. This is further boosted by the fact that any nice load-outs can be brought into PVP.

I've NEVER been one to chase achievements unless the actual doing of the achievement is fun, but this is really fucking compelling.

You are right that PVE teams need to be similarly levelled, though. I'm sure Bungie will be trying to get round that.

[Yewone]

So there is a great big, huge, massive engram farming exploit on Old Russia. I did it for an hour last night and came away with 15 blues, 3 purples and a shit load of discarded materials.

Doesn't that totally ruin one of the main pulls of the game though? The hunt for better gear?

Personally can't see the appeal of exploits to get High level stuff as it just cheapens getting anything you've actually had to work for.

[K]

The fact that you level up so quickly and hit the cap in less than a week's not-too-intense play would suggest to me that Bungie were aware of the problems in teaming up with players of wildly differing levels, and are trying to smooth it out by getting everyone to the cap ASAP. It does make me wonder if the whole game could have used post-lvl20 structure, so that you keep the concept of XP and abilities, but instead of arbitrarily filling up a bar every so often, you just level up weapons and abilities.

That way, you'd still have a sense of progression as you unlock and build up abilities and hunt down rare weapons, but you'd still be able to go on raids and strikes with people who've been playing a lot longer than you. They'd have better powers than you, but it'd be more of a level playing field as one player's guns wouldn't be colossally more powerful than another's.

That's kind of the way it works now to be honest, except that you have this artificial distinction between levels. The fact that the game rushes you through levels 1 - 20 so quickly says that Bungie wanted to get it over with as quickly as possible, so I guess it raises the question as to why it's in there at all.

[Wavy]

Care to share the details? I saw people shooting into a cave of respawning hive from a distance the other day, is that it?

That's exactly it. One person can do it for a while with the right timing, a few may slip out then you wait for the fallen to finish off any stragglers, two or three can lock it down completely. It also boosts your grimoire challenges for Old Russia, Hive, Thrall and Acolytes obviously.

@U-1. It does cheapen it a little but frankly the shitty practice of giving people blues from purple drops irritated me enough that I did it until I had a legendary....of course its a chest piece of which I have an exotic. They will fix it soon no doubt anyway, I swear drops are lower since Mondays patch.

[NecroMorrius]

See this part I have no problem with. Aside from being repetitive, the gameplay is mostly fun. It's the design around the gameplay I struggle with. What you describe is not exactly how the game works at all. It's exactly how the game works IF you are all within tolerant levels of each other. my level 8 elemental damage will do nothing to a level 23 elemental shield.

What I don't get is this, when you are level 5, and the enemy is level 5, lets say one bullet will do 5% damage to the enemy.

If you're then level 10, and the same enemy is level 10, i'm guessing one bullet will still do 5% damage to that enemy right?

Say your primary gun has 100 attack, each bullet does 100 damage to the enemy. Except, the enemy has some sort of resistance to kinectic damage. If the enemy has 50 resistance, you only do 50 damage. Now say you have 100 attack and the enemy has 200 resistance. If you shoot him all you get it RESIST RESIST RESIST. This goes on numbers rather than percentages.

In the higher difficulties the enemy shields have crazy high resistances to all but the correct damage type, so you have to coordinate with your team to take them down instead of skating through pumping the wrong/same damage type into every enemy.

They could have gone the Left 4 Dead route and simply flattened all the levels in all of the modes and made everything available from the start. It wouldn't be a very good RPG hybrid if they did that though.

Unless the Bungie site doesn't tell the whole story, since the release of the game you've done two strikes, one in which you got 13 kills (did you quit out?) and another where you went in as a level 20 with two guys level 6 and 8. Which would have been either utterly impossible at level 20 or a cakewalk if you were doing the level 8 version. Sorry, but that's how RPGs work. Apart from Oblivion. Why not give it a proper go?