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All I want, is it to capture what was so special about PGR 2 online. :)

Amen. I remember playing PGR2 online almost every night back in the day. Some of my fave online gaming moments were racing in PGR2 with the RLLMUK gang. I remember some classic racing with virtuapimp and spacedog uk around the streets of Edinburgh in the wet. Bliss. I really hope PGR4 is a return to the glory days. PGR3 just felt flat in comparison. PGR2 was almost perfect. Awesome tracks, superb/fun handling model, and excellent online integration. Edinburgh, Sydney, Stockholm, Moscow, Hong Kong (like a rollercoaster). All individual yet brilliant tracks in their own right. The tracks in PGR3 were just...uninspired and forgetful in my opinion. C'mon Bizzare Creations. Let's have another belter!

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The thing is, didn't PGR2 sell horribly?

I know PGR3 mainly sold well because it was the only racing game worth buying on the 360 for about 12 months, but its still sold bucket loads regardless. Would they even want to make it more like PGR2 again?

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The thing is, didn't PGR2 sell horribly?

I know PGR3 mainly sold well because it was the only racing game worth buying on the 360 for about 12 months, but its still sold bucket loads regardless. Would they even want to make it more like PGR2 again?

PGR2 sold badly despite the fact that it was an amazing game. There's no question that now the PGR series is a big brand, PGR4 will sell shitloads.

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The thing is, didn't PGR2 sell horribly?

I know PGR3 mainly sold well because it was the only racing game worth buying on the 360 for about 12 months, but its still sold bucket loads regardless. Would they even want to make it more like PGR2 again?

They will never go back to the PGR2 style and they shouldn't. PGR3 was a huge leap forward in a lot of ways and you can't underestimate the community it built up. Their are still lots of clans playing it today.

Like Kim said and I have said before, the best thing about PGR2 was the tracks and from the videos it really looks like they haven't really gone back to the PGR2 style tracks. The PGR3 tracks were average at best.

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I don't think it's unreasonable to have misgivings. In fact, given that it's the last thing anyone asked for or expected, you'd be forgiven for thinking they could've gone about improving on past iterations in far more imaginative ways than sticking a bunch of fucking bikes in there.

Like, I dunno, use the Kudos system properly? Handling and setting aside, it was once the fundamental difference between this series and any other. Now, it's just a side-serving of shit-on-toast with the finest lobster money can buy.

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Are there any races where Kudos are used to help determine who won the race? It would be a nice idea instead of having to just come first you had to get kudos as well. For example, every second faster you are than anyone else you get say 5 kudos points. For every crash however you lose 5. So even if you are last in the race you could still win because you didn't crash/bump your way into first place. To stop cheaters you could either reduce the timelimit at the end of the race or work out a points system which meant if you came last you couldn't just donut the whole race and win by a huge amount of kudos alone.

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I didn't like the system where you selected beforehand what medal to drive for. I'd rather have my score at the end decide, now it could happen you would select 'bronze', make an absolute stunning and awesome race worthy of gold and still ending up with bronze. Or screwing up on gold, good enough for bronze but still not getting anything.

This - especially with the time trials. Test Drive Unlimited got a lot of things right.

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I didn't like the system where you selected beforehand what medal to drive for. I'd rather have my score at the end decide, now it could happen you would select 'bronze', make an absolute stunning and awesome race worthy of gold and still ending up with bronze. Or screwing up on gold, good enough for bronze but still not getting anything.

Well, you couldn't go for Bronze and get a Platinum as the AI difficulty changed with each setting. I'd like to see it used on Time Trials and Speed vs Kudos etc, mind.

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You do know that none of the tracks from PGR2 are in don't you?

Tokyo, New York, the Nürburgring, London and Las Vegas, Shanghi, St. Petersburg, Quebec City, Macau and the Michelin Test Track.

PGR2 had Moscow - not St Petersburg.

I think the idea of bikes is a good un' - esp. when/if they all race together. They're just trying to make it appeal to both markets.

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No Nurburgring in PGR4? That would be criminal.

-edit-

Wikipedia says: "All of the tracks of the series' previous installment are returning for PGR4, inlcuding Tokyo, New York, the Nürburgring, London and Las Vegas. PGR4 will also feature five more cities and tracks that are entirely new to the franchise; Shanghai, St. Petersburg, Quebec City, Macau and the Michelin Test Track."

-edit2-

In fact, there's even a

of PGR4's Nurburgring in the snow.
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http://www.bizarrecreations.com/forum/view...;t=14802&p=

You won't see different times of day per city because this involves recreating all the textures again (one for day and one for night). Whilst this wasn't a problem for our dev team, it was a problem fitting all this data onto a single DVD. So we've worked around the problem by providing different lighting models per city. For example, Macau is always in the daytime, but if you play it during a storm everything looks darker and more foreboding. If you play during a blizzard then things are slightly tinged blue and everything seems more frozen. Of course, playing this track in sunshine will make everything appear bright and yellowy.

Funny, the dreamcast managed it with just 1 gig to play with.

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Why would it need 2 sets of textures? Surely you could achieve the effect with lighting?

I guess they're still using pre-rendered lightmaps (which are incorperated into the textures) rather than having everything lit in real time.

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I guess they're still using pre-rendered lightmaps (which are incorperated into the textures) rather than having everything lit in real time.

Very strange. Normally everything's lit real time, isn't it?

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Very strange. Normally everything's lit real time, isn't it?

No.

Usually scenery with static lighting uses light/shadowmapping as it's far more efficient, especially on big meshes.

Current gen machines are better capable of realtime lighting though, so there are games that are lit in realtime completely, or certain objects (like selfshadowing on cars) while the surrounding may still be lightmapped.

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Yeah, Lighting all the buildings is a massive waste of processing power, they don't move and neither does the light source.

For example:-

pgr3_h.jpg

The shadow of the bridge is actually painted onto the texture on the road, the only real lighting in the scene is on the cars, when they go under that bridge the lighting will be darkened thus giving the illusion of the light being obscured as the car goes under the bridge, but instead of all that complicated maths all the console has to worry about is making the car go dark when it gets to that bit of the track.

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