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The HD/Blu-ray Thread

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I simply cannot see Microsoft's thinking with releasing an add on HD-DVD player that isn't attached to the 360 console apart from by a video cable. I mean, why would anyone buy it? You have two separate boxes, console and DVD player, both having to be plugged in and switched on at the same time, both having to be connected to each other by a presumably messy cable, and add on top of that the infuriating fan noise of the console. The 360 can't charge the controller without a fan, let alone play HD video.

So back to the point I was making; why buy this when you could wait about six months until some reasonably priced cheap brand dedicated HD-DVD units are released - which, judging by Microsoft's poor performance in the DVD playback field - will likely be superior to Xbox 360's HD playback quality. It's not like you're getting the convenience or neatness of an all-in one - you still have to buy an extra machine, and with a standalone player, the only thing you'd have to connect it to is the back of your telly. None of this daisychaining rubbish.

There is a convinience, in that you would need to HD inputs on your TV in order to have 2 seperate units connected. This way, you can connect it all via your component input.

It's still a messy solution though. They should have made 2 360s, one the Premium one and the other a HDDVD compatible one.

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So a fully-equiped 360 is £30 more than a PS3 premium pack. It's not exactly going to drive up the console's appeal, but I suppose if you've already got a 360, £200 for an HD-DVD player isn't too bad.

I can already hear Big Phil though- "PS3- £30 cheaper than a similarly-equiped 360 (if you can buy one, assuming Blu-Ray is more successful, offer only applies until Microsoft cut the price of XBox 360, this does not affect your statutory rights)!

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Have you actually seen HD-DVD playing on decent kit or are you just saying it because you believe it to be true?

Nah, probably just because it's true.

Face it, both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD aren't going to take off for years, if ever. The increase in visual quality isn't worth the price.

You're talking about a massive increase in quality from DVD ---> HD-DVD for about £800 (an OK'ish TV and a player).

Whereas 5 years ago it was a fucking ginormous increase in quality from VHS to DVD for about £100 (just a player).

As far as I remember, DVD didn't start to (properly) take off until the PS2 was released and some sub £100 players were on the market.

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Whereas 5 years ago it was a fucking ginormous increase in quality from VHS to DVD for about £100 (just a player).

But it wasnt, most early DVD was VHS quality + 90% connect via composhite so the difference is not that much. When i was into DVD at the start some VHS tapes and lots of laser discs where better quality than dvd.

DVD took off in a big way due to convenience - no rewinding, ff, chapters and a smaller form factor. I have still been round peoples and switched the dvd player to RGB and seen the look of amazement when they realise they have been watching dvd at vhs quality for 5 years.

The PQ difference between a brand new VHS tape and an average DVD is not huge on 90% of peoples setup.

As far as I remember, DVD didn't start to (properly) take off until the PS2 was released and some sub £100 players were on the market.

It did take 2 years + before dvd was mainstream, i suspect more due to sub £100 players than the PS2.

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The first players hit Japan in 1996 I think, it wasn't until 2001 that they started popping up in people's houses up my way (me and my mates spent most of 2002 swapping movies about like the cine camera had just been invented, mind). 3-4 years at least from market to acceptance.

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It was easy to skip to the stuff you wanted to watch on DVD as well, as mentioned above, add to that the commentary and behind the scenes features you usually got as an incentive to buy over VHS. What can you do with HD-DVD... connect to the internet so you can look at IMDB instead!!!! Amazing.

EDIT: Although I heard there might be PiP commentaries, which would be cool.

HD-DVD and BD-ROM just don't have that many improvements over DVD for investment required to take advantage of it. Don't forget, DVD could be used on every TV in the house as well, I doubt many people are going to be filling their rooms with HD sets for a few years...

Yes, I've seen HD footage - and yes, it does look amazing.

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Whereas 5 years ago it was a fucking ginormous increase in quality from VHS to DVD

I don't think many folk have seen 1080p playing back on a good 1080p display. DVD is roughly 3 times the resolution of VHS (a tricky comparison as VHS was, of course, analogue) whereas HDDVD/bluray is five time the resolution of DVD.

I've done a bunch of work with uncompressed 1080p this year and to say it looks 'a little' better than SD is nonsense.

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I'd want an HD player just because the downscaling would provide a near-perfect picture on an SD set. But anyway, it's up the the user whether they want to jump over now, or three years down the line when there are more movies. Either way it'll happen eventually.

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The reason it will take longer for the majority of people to use a HD source for films, is because you have to change your TV. And not just one. If you have multiple TV's you'll need a HDTV in each room. DVD was just a great add on to use with all our current equipment, so caught on quicker.

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I don't think many folk have seen 1080p playing back on a good 1080p display. DVD is roughly 3 times the resolution of VHS (a tricky comparison as VHS was, of course, analogue) whereas HDDVD/bluray is five time the resolution of DVD.

I've done a bunch of work with uncompressed 1080p this year and to say it looks 'a little' better than SD is nonsense.

1080p is a good while off though, 720p is whats going to become standard in the UK for the next few years.

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I dunno, I watched a demo of a 1080i video on a big HDTV in Comet and it blew every other piece of video I'd seen in my life out of the water. HD video looks stupidly better than DVD.

I've seen those demos and they're blocky shite. On decent kit, proper HD should be breathtaking.

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The reason it will take longer for the majority of people to use a HD source for films, is because you have to change your TV. And not just one. If you have multiple TV's you'll need a HDTV in each room. DVD was just a great add on to use with all our current equipment, so caught on quicker.

I think it's more a case that HD sales will not take off dramatically until more people have HDTVs, and even then home-ents equipment traditionally takes a while to migrate to other rooms as price and size drops. The first HD players will be sold to people with HDTVs in their lounges, then to those just buying into HD as their lounge TV gets replaced, then to people buying HD players for their bedrooms to go with their new smaller HDTV, etc. It'll take a few years though.

I think 720p is still a gigantic leap over DVD, but for most people they can't tell the idfference from SD- because usually it doesn't get demoed. The hard part is getting Currys et al to hook up their less-expensive HDTVs to a decent source- just now there's usually one 1080p set with a DVI source, and the rest are being fed composite video... :D

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this whole HDDVD/Blueray thing just seems like the MiniDisk/Digitalcassette thing from a few years ago.

people were happy with CD's. They didn't care about the War being masterminded by greedy electronc companies. it was only when a file format (MP3) came along, that they started switching, as it offered greater convience over CD.

i think HD video will go the same way.

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Actually, it was only when Apple started marketing an overpriced, failure-prone HD MP3 player that people got interested. MP3 was arround loooong before people started listening to music on the move with it.

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YES WE KNOW

Fuck off. It's true.

That's the whole problem with HD movies. The move from VHS to DVD was a huge leap; far superior and noticable improved picture quality, no more rewinding tapes, no more degrading tapes, no more wobbly images that went B&W or noisy or showed glitches but a super crisp steady picture with the ease of a CD.

Now you basically get the same but then in a higher resolution.

Exactly my point. So stop bitching about my bitching.

So a fully-equiped 360 is £30 more than a PS3 premium pack.

Yeah, this is what I don't understand.

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Unless you buy the drive with it, and then it's 50 quid less. I think I'll skip "retail sources" and wait for something official before I worry about it being too expensive, which £200 would be.

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Actually, it was only when Apple started marketing an overpriced, failure-prone HD MP3 player that people got interested. MP3 was arround loooong before people started listening to music on the move with it.

You're not implying that the iPod kicked off portable MP3 players are you?

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fuck off am I replacing my DVD collection so soon. It was only a few years ago I sold all my old VHS.

Why do people insist on posting this everytime next gen video formats are mentioned. You do realise that BD and HD-DVD both play dvds? If so, it's really a silly comment to make

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You're not implying that the iPod kicked off portable MP3 players are you?

No, but it made them hip, aspirartional and highly visible. How high were portable MP3 player sales before Apple weighed in?

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No, but it made them hip, aspirartional and highly visible. How high were portable MP3 player sales before Apple weighed in?

Not very high sales wise, AFAIK, but they were widely available. I picked up a 32MB player from Dixons about 2 or 3 years before the iPod appeared.

You could get about 20 songs on it at a really shit bit rate - it was amazing.

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Actually, it was only when Apple started marketing an overpriced, failure-prone HD MP3 player that people got interested. MP3 was arround loooong before people started listening to music on the move with it.

sounds like they may be planning the start of something similar next week.

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Why do people insist on posting this everytime next gen video formats are mentioned. You do realise that BD and HD-DVD both play dvds? If so, it's really a silly comment to make

True, but generally, the films you buy are your favourites so you're naturally going to want to see them the best way possible. It inevitably means re-buying some of your stuff.

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Well, yeah, but not all of it. I might pick up Alien and Aliens on BD, but I'm not going to waste my cash rebuying my Chewin' The Fat boxset or Commando.

Really? Are you sure about that? Don't make me post gifs...

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True, but generally, the films you buy are your favourites so you're naturally going to want to see them the best way possible. It inevitably means re-buying some of your stuff.

Doesn't mean you need to replace parts of your collection en-masse (certainly not at full price)

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this whole HDDVD/Blueray thing just seems like the MiniDisk/Digitalcassette thing from a few years ago.

people were happy with CD's. They didn't care about the War being masterminded by greedy electronc companies. it was only when a file format (MP3) came along, that they started switching, as it offered greater convience over CD.

i think HD video will go the same way.

HD video will not go the same way as mini discs, basically because companies will force you to upgrade. Everyone has a DVD player now they are sub £20, so by releasing a new format, they now have another 5 years of selling over priced goods to people whilst slowly removing dvd releases forcing you to upgrade.

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Heh, Commando has just been posted to the Newsgroups in HD.

But yeah, I wouldn't replace my whole DVD collection. It's an absurd comment to make- nobody's forcing you to, and it'll be a long while before your whole DVD collection would be available in HD anyway. Some films are fine as they are on DVD, and some older films and TV shows wouldn't look any different on a HD disc I imagine.

I'd buy HD versions of my absolute favourite films first, plus any purchases of brand new films, and the rest when they're in the bargain bins.

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