Jump to content
IGNORED

Robocop 2


fragglerock
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm absolutely certain that when I saw it on VHS when I was younger, as Kain ran up the elevator shaft towards Robocop at the end and they flew out the roof you could hear him shout 'Oh Shit!'. It was missing from this version though.

You're right. I had always thought I'd heard someone shout that out. However, I actually thought it was one of the FX guys who had done the sound FX for the window breaking and it had gone wrong (maybe cut himself). I never thought it was a proper line in the film.

The stop-motion (or go-motion as I think it was) does give R2 a sense of weight and presence that CGI often fails to show. Animating each of the barrel turns of its guns must have been such a tricky job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're right. I had always thought I'd heard someone shout that out. However, I actually thought it was one of the FX guys who had done the sound FX for the window breaking and it had gone wrong (maybe cut himself). I never thought it was a proper line in the film.

The stop-motion (or go-motion as I think it was) does give R2 a sense of weight and presence that CGI often fails to show. Animating each of the barrel turns of its guns must have been such a tricky job.

Yeah it was always indistinct enough for me not to be able to tell whether it was Robocop or Kain himself shouting, that might explain it.

You're right about the stop motion too, I've only seen Terminator 3 really achieve a real sense of weight with it's CGI. The toilet fight between Arnie and the Terminatrix in that film is a lot like a smaller-scale version of the Robocop 1/2 brawl, with robots throwing each other through walls and all sorts of destruction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heh, it's bollocks. This is the one with the kid, right? He was pretty cool though.

Never seen the third film, but after reading some of the comments it seems like I'll have to.

Don't...

Image101.gif

Why? Why? WHY!?

Oh and stop motion / animatronics kick ass. They just looks 'weighty' and when done right, far more real than CGI

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's still got some satire left in it, with all the themes of 'political correctness gone mad' and etc. Robocop 3 was empty in that respect and felt exactly like what it was, a TV pilot, not a film.

Love the way that fucking kid kills several police officers and yet we're still meant to feel sorry for him when he dies.

It's got an amazing 'floating brain and eyeballs in a jar' scene too.

Robocop 3's plot was for the tv show? Sure? One of the original drafts for R2 was that plot though, wasn't it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, Robo 2. I think it's pretty good. There's that whole correctness-gone-mad thing running through it, and the idea that people will make any sacrifice for a short-term win- binning Robo, selling the city to drug barons to save it from the Company, who are essentially going to destroy the city's soul, but the citizens are happy if they get their 45th-floor apartment...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I'm going to watch it tonight, everyone! :)

You're just making me want to watch it even more now.

I remember Robocop 3 taking ages to be released in this country, which is never a good sign. My friend and I were going mad with anticipation. What an anticlimax.

As far as I remember, it's not so bad it's good, it's just bad. And boring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting.

Here's some trivia from IMDb:

# The point-of-view shots from Robocop include references to MS-DOS, while the point-of-view shots from Robocop 2 feature a Apple MacIntosh-style interface, with a skull instead of the Apple logo.

# Robocop's new directives are:

* DIRECTIVE 233 Restrain hostile feelings

* DIRECTIVE 234 Promote positive attitude

* DIRECTIVE 235 Suppress aggressiveness

* DIRECTIVE 236 Promote pro-social values

* DIRECTIVE 246 Don't rush traffic lights (repeated below)

* DIRECTIVE 254 Encourage awareness

* DIRECTIVE 256 Discourage harsh language

* DIRECTIVE 258 Commend sincere efforts

* DIRECTIVE 261 Talk things out

* DIRECTIVE 262 Avoid Orion meetings

* DIRECTIVE 266 Smile

* DIRECTIVE 267 Keep an open mind

* DIRECTIVE 268 Encourage participation

* DIRECTIVE 273 Avoid stereotyping

* DIRECTIVE 278 Seek non-violent solutions

* DIRECTIVE 238 Avoid destructive behavior

* DIRECTIVE 239 Be accessible

* DIRECTIVE 240 Participate in group activities

* DIRECTIVE 241 Avoid interpersonal conflicts

* DIRECTIVE 242 Avoid premature value judgements

* DIRECTIVE 243 Pool opinions before expressing yourself

* DIRECTIVE 244 Discourage feelings of negativity and hostility

* DIRECTIVE 245 If you haven't got anything nice to say don't talk

* DIRECTIVE 246 Don't rush traffic lights

* DIRECTIVE 247 Don't run through puddles and splash pedestrians or other cars

* DIRECTIVE 248 Don't say that you are always prompt when you are not

* DIRECTIVE 249 Don't be oversensitive to the hostility and negativity of others

* DIRECTIVE 250 Don't walk across a ballroom floor swinging your arms

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a lot of the problems with the motion of Robocop (and his shiny blue armour) were the fault of the direction and lighting. It made him look far more cartooney and unthreatening.

Verhoeven seemed to shoot Robo either in closeup or distance, not in medium shot. This gave a much better sense of his weight and size. Shots of Paul Weller in the armour (in 2) walking next to people mean he looks titchy.

The lighting was also very, very ropey: over-bright and without the industrial grey hue Detroit is mean to have.

The first post on IMBD about R2 is very good. It's quite long, so spoilered:

Robocop 2 is probably the most under-rated and most harshly criticized sequel in history (tying with Predator 2, which came out the same year). Because of a few missing elements from the first and a slightly more cartoonish approach to the violence, the critics and public alike were not pleased and opinions and feelings toward the franchise nosedived with the just plain awful Robocop 3.

Don't con yourself out of a good movie though. Robocop 2 still has the same savage sense of humor, cynical social commentary and character pathos of the first film. It's a hyper-realistic vision of an America populated by gun-loving psychos, a democracy owned by big business and the poverty-stricken addicted to drugs dealt to them by peddlers believing themselves to be the second coming of Christ.

Far-fetched could be the typical way of describing it. Completely-over-the-top would be more appropriate. Empire Strikes Back director Irvin Kershner chucks in as much sadistic violence, deafening gunfire, endless destruction and loss of human life that the film just begs you not to take it seriously.

Some of the blame was placed on writer Frank Miller for the film being more cartoonish than the original. I don't think this is very fair. I read Miller's original script when I was in high school and it is rather different and, dare I say, unfilmable. Robocop 2 himself was not Nuke Lord Caine, the psychotic hippie with delusions of Godhood. He was called Kong, a psychotic cop who pretty much killed everybody he came across. Sgt. Reed and the Old Man died and there wasn't much humor. Screenwriter Walon Green was hired to doctor the script and much of what appears on screen is actually his work. Frank Miller's original ideas are pretty much just left as the framework for the whole movie and some of his story was recycled into Robocop 3 (don't blame him for that one either). Miller was obviously upset with this but was still a good enough sport to appear in the film (keep a lookout for him playing Doctor Frank), though he vowed not to work in Hollywood again for fear of being taken advantage of. Until Robert Rodriguez promised to make good on his Sin City graphic novels.

Verhoven may be gone but Irvin Kershner tries hard to deliver the same mix of mirth and magic and actually does get it right. Basil Poledouris' brooding score is also gone (it returns in Robocop 3) but new composer Leonard Rosenman creates a wonderfully heroic and upbeat theme that suits the film more than Poledouris' moody, tormented score to the first.

Filmed once again in Texas, Houston this time, you really have to feel for Peter Weller walking around in that Robosuit. It must have weighed a ton and he'd be sweating bucketloads inside. There is a particular scene in the film where Murphy is tortured into near-death/destruction that is very hard to watch. But it does lead to him getting a brand-new makeover and those crazy new directives put into his head. The bit where he lectures the Little League kids and scolds the youngsters playing by the leaky fire hydrant (after quoting some very suspicious philosophy) is hilarious.

Robocop 2 is a great movie. Despite problems with the script and story and some slightly dated stop-motion effects it's a brilliant sequel that lives up to expectations. Do listen to the nay-sayers. I don't know what kind of film they were expecting.

And thank you for not smoking!

Interesting, even though I disagree with it in the main.

The film's flawed in many ways that detract from what is, IMHO, a fantastic screenplay full of violence, humour and scorn. One of my main gripes is that the cast is absolutely appalling - barely any of them can deliver a line, and it really harms the film. My second main gripe is that the design and effects are quite poor - they lack the polish the original has.

What I wouldn't do for a new Robocop. They could even start after 3 - hell, even after the TV series - and I'd be happy. Something nasty and apocalyptic that fitted-in the war on terror would be nice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't realise Irvin Kershner directed this. Therefore, I'll let its numerous flaws slide.

You're right. The director of Empire Strikes Back, no less. :lol:

Even though I like Robocop 2, the one area where it truly cannot touch the original is in the calibre of its villains. For the film to have two main villains -- Dick Jones and Clarence Boddicker -- and make them so utterly memorable where other films struggle to bring us even one truly ace bad guy is fantastic. Even Boddicker's gang look unique; they have a real larger than life feel about them.

Cain in Robo 2, by comparison, is a charsima free zone until he gets schlupped into the cyborg suit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kirshner was so gutted over the critical mauling Robocop 2 received, he vowed never to direct another film.

In my opinion, Robocop 2 was a good sequel to a phenomenal film, and so was bound to fall short. Personally I think stuff like the Sun Block 5000 and OCP security system advert perfectly preserved the satirical bite of the first film, and the action and plot were all solid enough.

Principally though, it lacked Verhoevens magic, where instead of just presenting the satire in bite-size chunks, was actually woven into virtually every element of the film, and that - for me - is what made the first movie so special, that and he knew how to do OTT so that it was OTT, and not just for the sake of it.

Every scene in Robocop had a purpose, and slotted in perfectly with everything else the film was about, the sequel just couldn't do that, because Robocop was as much about Verhoeven's American Christ take on the original script, as it was about Robocop.

The sins of the third film were largely down to Orion pictures going bankrupt, commissioning a third - child friendly - Robocop film in an attempt to save themselves, but then going bust before they could get it out to cinemas. Many of the post production sfx shots were in a half completed state, and when Orion finally managed to release the film, it was nearly 3 years later, making the already dated stop motion and blue screen effects look extremely poor. As a whole the film deliberately went in a different direction to the previous 2, and so ended up looking very weak in comparison. The ending irks me considerably to this day, watching Robocop get his ass kicked waiting for a twelve year old girl to save him was a definite low point in the franchise. That being said, I did think it wrapped up the whole OCP, Delta City plot line up quite nicely, so wasn't a complete waste.

The following TV shows have been all over the place, each claiming to be the " true follow up" to the first film, but each falling further and further off the mark. The Four part mini-series "Prime Directives" was enjoyable in part, but I don't know what the point of creating a new Robocop show is, if all they want to do is show him getting consistently junked and beaten down.

There are persistent rumours that a Robocop remake is going to happen, and Verhoeven even showed interest a few years back, but if they do carry on with the franchise, I just hope they leave the original alone, and create a fresh story for the character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't agree with it cos I thought robocop(1) was filmed in Dallas, not Houston?

Or am I thinking of Logans run, again? :lol:

I understand the first was filmed in Dallas, but when the production returned, the Dallas city council made it prohibitive (either by expense or by restrictions) to film there, so they moved to Houston.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand the first was filmed in Dallas, but when the production returned, the Dallas city council made it prohibitive (either by expense or by restrictions) to film there, so they moved to Houston.

Ah yes

Houston this time
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kirshner was so gutted over the critical mauling Robocop 2 received, he vowed never to direct another film.

In my opinion, Robocop 2 was a good sequel to a phenomenal film, and so was bound to fall short. Personally I think stuff like the Sun Block 5000 and OCP security system advert perfectly preserved the satirical bite of the first film, and the action and plot were all solid enough.

Principally though, it lacked Verhoevens magic, where instead of just presenting the satire in bite-size chunks, was actually woven into virtually every element of the film, and that - for me - is what made the first movie so special, that and he knew how to do OTT so that it was OTT, and not just for the sake of it.

Every scene in Robocop had a purpose, and slotted in perfectly with everything else the film was about, the sequel just couldn't do that, because Robocop was as much about Verhoeven's American Christ take on the original script, as it was about Robocop.

Excellent post. Watching the last hour or so of Robocop 2 the other day, I realised it's not bad at all. Whereas the violence just seemed unpleasant when I was 11, it's pretty funny these days because of its sheer gratuitousness. Also, reading the plot synopsis on Wikipedia, it's actually got a really good story - full of political satire.

And Robo 2 himself is brilliant - better than ED-209, dare I say it. He doesn't sound as good, mind.

There's a definite lack of quotable lines in 2, though. Nearly every line in Robo 1 was a classic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Use of this website is subject to our Privacy Policy, Terms of Use, and Guidelines.