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The Dark Knight

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I'm watching the animated series again and it's fan-fucking-tastic. Wonderfully designed with a flair that just wouldn't be achievable in a live-action film. Batman's characterisation was great too, if a little light-hearted, but that's forgivable given that it's aimed a young kids.

And guns fire bullets rather than lasers! Surely the only cartoon of the 90s to do this?

Nope Gargoyles had the cops using proper guns too (though there were particle guns in it also) - they even had the female lead getting shot and almost killed in an early episode - complete with full hospital resuccitation scene which I can't remember seeing anything like in a cartoon before..

The series is very much in the tone of Batman TAS (and worked on by several of the same writers) - Region 1 DVDs of the first and half the second series are available - well worth a look.

Animated Batman series was excellent! That was the WB one with the blimp at start of the intro, wasn't it?

Who did his voice, it was great?

Kevin Conroy - And continues to do so in Batman Beyond, Justice League/JL Unlimited etc..

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Do you mean the second sentence is art deco? Or are those sentences unconnected?

Aye, unconnected. I never manage to make much sense when I go back and edit posts. :D

I thought the place felt more of dilapated grandeur mixed in with areas of extreme poverty, really.

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I fail to see how Heath Ledger will ever live up to the psychotic gleeful menace of Mark Hamill's Return Of The Joker version.

But I'm looking forwar to finding out.

I thought Begins was okay, and certainly rooted some of Batman's history down a bit better, but could've done with being a bit less like a music video for Linkin Park.

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I fail to see how Heath Ledger will ever live up to the psychotic gleeful menace of Mark Hamill's Return Of The Joker version.

Even to this day I can never quite believe Im actually hearing Hamill's voice, its just too damn good. But then when he did something as good as the voices in Full Throttle (Game) the guy deserves some respect for his awesome voice talent.

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Yep, I just don't buy into the reasoning that the fighting scenes where supposed to be the way they where in the first movie.

It was a clear decision to make the fights disorienting to watch - they were trying to convey the blink & you'll miss it tactic Batman employed to strike fear into the hearts of his enemies. I thought the editing conveyed that quite well.

Not sure about Ledger, but I'm happy to be proved wrong as he's a good actor. Would have to be great makeup.

And as for Bale being shorter than Neesen - Neesen is 6'5", and there's not a lot of actors around that tall. Batman's official height, long established by DC, is 6'2", and that's apparently Bale's official height as well. So, quite a difference between him and Liam.

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300px-Jokerkillingjoke.png

Brian Bollands artwork in The Killing Joke is just amazing. the whole comic is so crisp and clean, yet the storyline is so dark. utter brilliance.

In regards to the dark night I reckon that it will be better than bb if he gets the fight sequences right and makes the Joker a complete barking nut-case. which he is.

I watched burton's Batman recently and found it lacking in a lot of the batman mythos and basically just another vehicle for burton and his view of the world. at the time it was fresh, but now I realise he played havoc with the very core of batman - parents death by the joker?? - and that he has a format and a style which has to be in every movie. Keaton is good, but Bale much better

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No idea who this fellow in the pic is but I certainly prefer this take on him to the more traditional and colourful ones seen in most of the Ledger mock-ups floating about at the moment:

joker2.jpg

It's Conrad Veidt, German Silent actor who was Bob Kane's original inspiration for The Joker after his turn in The Man Who Laughs.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the sort of avenue Nolan takes make-up wise for the sequel. Not too campy, no bright green hair and big clown lipstick, just a fucking scary looking pale bloke

TMWL.jpg

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I wouldn't be surprised if that's the sort of avenue Nolan takes make-up wise for the sequel. Not too campy, no bright green hair and big clown lipstick, just a fucking scary looking pale bloke

Yeah, I think this will be the route they take. Reminds me of when the team behind the Animated Series streamlined a lot of their character design in the jump from Batman the Animated Series to The New Batman Adventures:

joker1.gif

They dropped the ruby lips and made his hair look almost as if it was black with green highlights. They also simplified his eyes up a bit, so that they were these insane white eyeballs, no pupils, surrounded by rank shadow:

joker1.jpg

This would work very well in Nolan's Batman universe.

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Despite me preferring Begin much more than Burton's vision, I don't agree with this dismissal of the set design. It's one of the things that works heavily in favour of Burton's movies I think. They may look fake, but they are fantastically fake. The movies don't exactly strive for realism so so what if they're fake looking? The whole set design is gorgeous in my eyes. It instantly strikes an iconic environment for this version of Batman.

They wouldn't suit the world of Begins, which does well in having it's own 'real world' setting. It looks more than a New York city clone despite obvious inspirations but still has that comic book grandeur. The first scene that shows the monorail heading towards Wayne Towers is amazing.

Another great thing about Burton's Batman is Elfman's score, something that was unfortunately missing from Begins. To me, Elfman's score is up there with Williams' Superman stuff (even if Elfman has come to rely on it too much and echoed it several times in other movies).

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Despite me preferring Begin much more than Burton's vision, I don't agree with this dismissal of the set design. It's one of the things that works heavily in favour of Burton's movies I think. They may look fake, but they are fantastically fake. The movies don't exactly strive for realism so so what if they're fake looking? The whole set design is gorgeous in my eyes. It instantly strikes an iconic environment for this version of Batman.

Oh, I didn't mean to diss Burton's sets. I thought they were gorgeous and they actually acted as an inspiration in much of my own work, especially in my younger years. Batman Returns is visually one of the most beautifully appealing movies that I can think of from the 90s!

I was just taking umbrage with folk dissing Nolan's Gotham. The scale, the mix of opulence, technology and decay, all that. I loved it. I'm a sucker for New York, though. The original big fuck-off metropolis to be decked out in magnificent art deco stylings ^_^

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Oh, I didn't mean to diss Burton's sets. I thought they were gorgeous and they actually acted as an inspiration in much of my own work, especially in my younger years. Batman Returns is visually one of the most beautifully appealing movies that I can think of from the 90s!

I was just taking umbrage with folk dissing Nolan's Gotham. The scale, the mix of opulence, technology and decay, all that. I loved it. I'm a sucker for New York, though. The original big fuck-off metropolis to be decked out in magnificent art deco stylings ^_^

Sorry, that wasn't really directed at you, more so at folk like Vemsie who don't take a liking to obvious set design in a comic book movie. Any other genre of modern day film, maybe it wouldn't fit so well but in the context of comic books, I think movies like Burton's Batman, The Shadow and Dick Tracy work wonderfully in establishing an obvious make-believe world.

If anything, it seems you and I agree completely ^_^

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I thought that the sets were fine on it's own. Not my style of choise but fine nevertheless. But watching the film was too much like the Universal Studio tour for me. 'Here's the Wayne Manor set, let's move on to the musuem set.'

It took me out of the movie.

Sleepy Hollow on the other hand :lol:

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That's a fair point. The sets stood out so much I guess. You could say the had more character than Bruce/Batman did in those movies!

Looking back over people's preferences (Burton's vision or Nolan's), it's like how people have favourite arcs and creative teams in the comics. There's been some massive evolution in the character and look of Batman – Bob Kane's original, Dick Spang, Neal Adams, Frank Miller, Tim Sale etc – all great takes on the franchise but all their own beast.

Ultimately I prefer Nolan's take due to sheer amount of respect for the Batman character that is up on screen. Burton's take is very pretty and sounds amazing, but at the end of the day, it's more Burton than Batman. Nolan's version nails my favourite interpretation of Batman (late eighties onwards) and did so by barely touching his iconic rogue's gallery, meaning Bruce/Batman got all the attention and left a lot of anticipation of what's to come.

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You'll find I'm equally enthusiastic about all iterations. From Adam West, through Burton, past Animated, onto Nolan. I find goodness in it all.

Schumacher can suck one, though. Again. Of course.

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After reading this thread I simply had to rewatch the film again last night. Still a bloody good romp and it still sends a chill down my spine when Bale is crouching on the rooftop in the Narrows and turns to Rachel, repeating her line "Its not who we are on the inside, but what we do that defines us" before jumping. The build up to that is just perfect. I love this movie.

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Yes, the way it showed HOW he became Batman was great to watch. I have no knowledge of any of the comics so it was great to see it explained, rather than taking the old special effects-laden route throughout the whole film.

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After reading this thread I simply had to rewatch the film again last night. Still a bloody good romp and it still sends a chill down my spine when Bale is crouching on the rooftop in the Narrows and turns to Rachel, repeating her line "Its not who we are on the inside, but what we do that defines us" before jumping. The build up to that is just perfect. I love this movie.

I hated this more than anything ever, and for me, it almost ruined the entire film for being cheesy and unnecessary shite. Arrgh. It still annoys me.

I have a sduper-sercethidden identity I don't want anyone to know about. It'll be hideously tough to keep it secret. Not going to tell anyone, ever, no...oh.

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Hey there.

I've never read a Batman comic. I have no idea what the Joker was like in the books. But I kinda dig the casting of Heath Ledger. I think it;s a really different and interesting choice.

I'm glad they're not "stunt" casting the roles and sticking in big names for the sake of it.

I kind of hope they go the sad clown route with Ledger as the Joker as opposed to the "crazy" and "mad" style joker that Nicholson did.

It would be cool to have a bad guy that is somewhat aware of what he is (an evil fuckin clown faced nutter) and is aware that what he is doing is fuckin mental, Aware that he is crazy and is sad and fuckin gutted about it... but STILL does that shit because he IS crazy..

I dunno. Like I said.. I don't know the comic or the character. But if I were writing the film I think I would go that way.

Despin out.

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Hey there.

I've never read a Batman comic. I have no idea what the Joker was like in the books. But I kinda dig the casting of Heath Ledger. I think it;s a really different and interesting choice.

I kind of hope they go the sad clown route with Ledger as the Joker as opposed to the "crazy" and "mad" style joker that Nicholson did.

It would be cool to have a bad guy that is somewhat aware of what he is (an evil fuckin clown faced nutter) and is aware that what he is doing is fuckin mental, Aware that he is crazy and is sad and fuckin gutted about it... but STILL does that shit because he IS crazy..

I dunno. Like I said.. I don't know the comic or the character. But if I were writing the film I think I would go that way.

Despin out.

That's never going to happen Despin , despite some of the brickbats thrown at Nolan he does appear to have a handle on the characters and the joker is anything but sad , sorrowful or gutted about what he does . He is in my opinion the sickest , vilest and most violent comic book villian and to portray him in any other way would be a travesty .

That photo posted earlier which draws its inspiration from the film "The Man Who Laughs" perfectly encapsulates what the Joker is.

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I don't think the film Batman Begins stands up to repeated viewings. The dialogue, you notice how almost preachy and old fashioned it is on repeat viewings, and it really grates.

It's not just that the dialogue is preachy, there is just far too much of it anyway. Endless scenes of talky talky talky with that interminable soundtrack in the background. Yuck.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the film overall but I could have happily watched it with the sound off. I hope The Dark Knight has a more streamlined script with more room to breathe.

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Hmmm, now this rumour is a bit more worrying. It's from IMDb's WENN news service..

Ledger I can handle but Phillipe is awful. Mention of Penguin? 3 bad guys?

-------------------------------------------------

Ryan Phillippe may be set to take over from Tommy Lee Jones after reportedly landing the role of Harvey Dent/Two-Face in the upcoming Batman Begins sequel. Reese Witherspoon's husband will join Heath Ledger, who has signed on to play The Joker, and new Batman Christian Bale in The Dark Knight. Crash star Phillippe beat Liev Shreiber and Josh Lucas to the role of the scheming district attorney, played by Jones in 1995 movie Batman Forever, according to internet reports. Academy Award winners Sir Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman have also joined the cast, while fellow Oscar winner Philip Seymour Hoffman is in talks to play The Penguin in the new film.

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