GTA:IV Official Thread

[murray]

Yeah, the handling is fine.

This isn't GT5

But you have to slow down to a crawl to go round any corner! Then you typically just skid across the street for ages...

[Sng]

n00b.

[Smitty]

But you have to slow down to a crawl to go round any corner! Then you typically just skid across the street for ages...

Pffft.

[Cosmic_Guru]

Fun is incredibly important. I can't remember when I last laughed so much during a game - whether its a random event or an advert on the radio or the dialogue, it cracks me up every few minutes. Watching the the Monty Pythonesque "History of Liberty City" part 1 on Tv was a hoot. I know it's all a big riff on a single theme really but it hits the spot here and that compensates a great deal for other shortcomings.

As for gameplay, we are all affected by our experiences to date, we can't help that. Most of us have played some of Crackdown, Oblivion, Hitman, Saint's Row for example and this influences our views and approach to this game immensely - who doesn't look upwards more now to see if there is a way of getting to the top of buildings? who doesn't wish there was a more sophisticated way of following a target around for a while and deciding on the best way to take him down rather than being transplanted into a situation by hitting a mark and having almost zero flexibility?

Comparing this GTA to earlier ones, I miss some of the rewards you used to get in the early games for exploration (power ups and so on) but I love the driving model which (with bonnet cam on cheers Tyler) feels so much more meaty now than it ever did, and also the new evasion process.

[robdood]

But you have to slow down to a crawl to go round any corner! Then you typically just skid across the street for ages...

Not when you're any good, and in a decent car, you don't. Get some skills.

And quit your whining.

[Guest]

More importantly it's fun - something we seem to overlook at the expense of picking fault in every game because we spend so much time finding every minor flaw now.

What is "fun"? Zookeeper is "fun". I've played that LOADS. Probably more than halo. Best game ever?? Katamri Damacy. Amazing fun. Not quite GTA though is it.

See you guys are not, quite, getting it.

What many "games" have become is entertainment experiences. They are no longer games. Even Halo, though rooted in a basic shooter, works wonders with it's atmosphere. The music, the story, the pacing. These are not about "Gameplay" are they? It's about the whole package.

So, you say nothing has come close to Halo. Thing is, Halo is very much a gamer's game. Sure it's drawn in a few more people due to it's massive popularity and the take up of the Playstation generation.

See Halo is popular with gamers cos it's space and monsters and it calls out to geeks. It's never going to appeal to a wider audience as much, and even if you were killing humans in Halo 3 you can bet it wouldn't get criticised like GTA does. It does not have that mass market appeal. That's what games often strive for, they talk about the "Mass Market", and yet only a few ever reach them. If at all.

The way I judge how a game has done on a global scale is simple. I ask my mum if she's heard of it. Halo, despite 3 versions - no. Grand Theft Auto. Yes, even before 4.

What GTA4 has achieved, as an overall experience is far, far greater than what Halo has managed. On every level GTA4 bests Halo 3...oh wait you may say that the "Gameplay" is not as rich, pure, whatever. Maybe so from your gamers perspective. But look at it from another two sides. 1) simulation of some aliens running around some rocks is easier than simulation a whole city 2) 3rd person character control, animation, etc, is harder to do than 1st person - and yes it gives a greater feeling of connection with the character.

See what 1+2 bring you in the force of GTA's world is that added experience. It combines to make it look and feel far, far greater than a Halo game. Now I'm sure I'll get Kerraig running in here going "NO IT DOESNT", but try to understand what I'm saying. I'm not taking it from my point of view, or yours, but what generally people would think.

Because the game IS made to appeal to as many people as possible. It has, and it will.

Let's put it like this Smit. Halo makes you feel a certain way. While core mechanics are oh, so, important, without the layers of art [+technical/engine], story, characters, music, etc - you'd have a pretty dull game.

Wait, not game. Experience. We make experiences for people, and thats exactly how it should be.

Otherwise, for it's core mechanics Zookeeper is the best game ever. I mean Bejewelled...whatever.

[murray]

OkAAAAAAY GUYS.

[ras el hanout]

Because the game IS made to appeal to as many people as possible. It has, and it will.

The game may appeal to a lot of people, however I don't think quite that many will get more than 10% into it. It's fucking complicated to control.

[Guest]

The game may appeal to a lot of people, however I don't think quite that many will get more than 10% into it. It's fucking complicated to control.

Ramone, yesterday

JOKES!

I think you underestimate people. Not everyone is Murray, OMG CRASHED MY CAR!

Regardless they've bought the game already and will enjoy it for hours and hours.

[SomeNaiveChump]

The missions are every bit as terrible (and I mean 3/10 terrible) and irrelevant as before.

Follow a guy who's totally invulnerable to the 15 shots you've just put in his head, THEN shoot him in the head? Knob off. It makes no sense and is just totally shit. There is no freedom whatsoever to even try to make the shit missions fun.

Mercifully we now have great physics, good car handling, a teaming city and online play within it.

[YouWish8]

Everyones so negative, shut up and enjoy it

And i love the handling, you have to slow down a little at corners in most cars just like in real life, but the people complaining clearly cant drive

[robdood]

Jesus this thread's gone all depressing Spoiling me GTA experience!!

[SomeNaiveChump]

Everyones so negative, shut up and enjoy it

I hate to be negative about it but seriously, just give me the whole map open from the start and I will never have to do one of your shitty fucking missions again. They're not bad, they're atrocious.

[Meers]

Yeah, the handling is fine.

This isn't Forza 2

Corrected.

And indeed.

[Sng]

I hate to be negative about it but seriously, just give me the whole map open from the start and I will never have to do one of your shitty fucking missions again.

Go into Free Mode online?

[SomeNaiveChump]

Go into Free Mode online?

Obviously, but there should be an offline equivalent.

Most free mode games have respawning limited to a TINY area and everyone survives for about 8 seconds at a time.

[Sng]

I'm pretty sure you can start it yourself and have it private so no one else can come in though. Then you can just run about the whole place doing what you like.

[Smitty]

Even Halo, though rooted in a basic shooter, works wonders with it's atmosphere.

LOL as they say.

[Timmo]

This thread is becoming depressing. This absolutely destroys the previous GTAs.

Having just unlocked the final island, I've not come across a mission I haven't enjoyed yet. Sure, they're 95% purely shooting, chasing or getting chased, but when those elements are so utterly fun, I don't think it matters. It plays to its strengths. Driving and shooting never get boring for me, and there's a decent storyline to go with it. Nobody complained about Crackdown having even less variety.

And the friendship system is far better than it should be, I genuinely like Brucie and Little Jacob, and whilst Packie annoys me at the moment I'll probably come round to him. This game has an awful lot of personality.

Of course not everything is right, but it's moving in the right direction, and the faults it does have will no doubt be dealt with in future GTAs.

[Yoshimax]

I'm not sure why people making valid criticisms are getting so much stick. As K said, the seven-year-old GTA3 had more open missions than GTAIV. For some reason, story missions in GTA games have become excuses for dialogue and cut scenes rather than actually playing the game. I've just been playing for three hours, and had so much fun doing the police missions and other general side quests. I couldn't really bring myself to attempt any story missions, as they just aren't as good (in general).

How have so many people finished this so quickly as to be able to gauge the number of "open missions"(?) it contains ?

[SomeNaiveChump]

I'm pretty sure you can start it yourself and have it private so no one else can come in though. Then you can just run about the whole place doing what you like.

I've tried to do this and failed. Will try again.

edit: it works but you have to be online and have XBL Gold to do it, which is dumb

Nobody complained about Crackdown having even less variety.

Crackdown was abysmal. There.

[Guest]

LOL as they say.

Oh dear. Oh deary deary dear. You do not grasp the concept of it.

Did Halo not work because of it's sheer, singleminded, wonderful simplicity? 2 guns, 2 grenades. Stripping down a shooter to it's core and really running with it?

Yes, yes it did. Why did "simple" become bad?

You need to start looking deeper than just what's on the surface and what you like. An understanding and appreciation for others.

[Smitty]

Did Halo not work because of it's sheer, singleminded, wonderful simplicity? 2 guns, 2 grenades. Stripping down a shooter to it's core and really running with it?

But those mechanics allowed it a deep, more complex gameplay.

You need to start looking deeper than just what's on the surface and what you like. An understanding and appreciation for others.

I don't know what you're babbling on about here. My whole point about Halo is that the surface doesn't matter there, although that is great (in my opinion), it's all about the gameplay which is the real star of the show.

Halo got game.

[Blu3Flame]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/33469.html

Another excellent comparison video.

[Capwn]

yup depressing. That's why I've hardly come in here since getting it. So mr capone what are your views on the game after 20 hours of play?

Main difference is the car handling which I started to 'get' after about 10 hours. You really need to just have the 'feel' for it, much like real driving really! Importantly I can now drive cars without them driving me but I can see this aspect of the game putting many off.

Missions, even now, still feel like they are tutorials teaching me how to do every little thing in the game. Which is of course important, I can see 'noobs' attempting to 'give the game a go' by playing halfway through their mates save file and being fully dumb struck when it comes to combat. This also takes time to get the 'feel' for it. So anyway, up to this point I've not done any really amazing missions that hasn't more or less been done in an old GTA yet. I can also see this putting people off the game, I can see a lot of people just running over peds and freeforming it then getting board and giving up with it because the missions could be seen as quite boring if you're not really into GTA.

Mobile phone works nicely in many aspects.Restarting missions being one of the more useful features. You STILL have to do all parts of a multipart mission though . Not sure if I like that or not, it IS annoying but it makes the mission so much more tense. Going out with dates/mates seems a bit of a novelty still, or maybe I'm just not seeing what changes it is creating.

New police wanted system works well though not got above 3 stars yet, and even that I find difficult to escape from.

Really impressed with the dynamic animation, usually this kind of thing ends up with constant little glitches like body parts snapping or flipping but seen none of this yet!

Artistically as expected poor on close inspection but really amazing art direction overall. I've heard many moan about the blurred effect but I think you need this to hide the crappy textures and it works. If the textures were high res and the game could handle it and there was no blurred effect it would look horrible (ahem, saints row).

Anyway won't go on too much for now. Overall, I prefer this gameplay wise to SMG and SOTC which are the last amazing games I remember from the last 5 or so years...

[Rowan Morrison]

I guess the handling issues are down to a more comprehensive physics system. The handbrake in San Andreas was a bit of a 'get round a corner free' button, but in IV you're at the mercy of your momentum. It just took a little while for me to adjust to that style of play as I was expecting Automan-style 90 degree turns. It still feels a bit floaty and low-g, and during crashes the cars seem to occasionally inherit the flopping-fish syndrome that plagued bodies in older ragdoll systems.

But it's far more satisfying to pull off a daring getaway in IV because you just know it could so easily have gone horribly wrong.

[Guest]

But those mechanics allowed it a deep, more complex gameplay.

Agreed. They are absolutely core to Halo. As you say they allow a deeper game. So, from a start point, take these away and...well then whatever follows on is, by association, not going to be as good.

The Core Mechanics of any game are crucial to it's success, most certainly. But you cannot discount everything else that goes into a game, that layers upon layers that are crafted to create a unique experience.

A great example. Bejewelled > Puzzle Quest!

Same core gameplay mechanics, but look what they did to the whole experience.

[Stanley]

I hate to be negative about it but seriously, just give me the whole map open from the start and I will never have to do one of your shitty fucking missions again. They're not bad, they're atrocious.

GTA4 is a journey. It's not about giving you the whole map and letting you do what you want, it's about small beginnings. There's a whole story going on here with characters as brilliant and real as they are banal and psychotic. I love the way the world slowly opens up and blossoms. Such power in the palm of my hand.

Has anyone managed to get a vehicle on to that rollercoaster yet? It must be possible.

[ras el hanout]

Ramone, yesterday

JOKES!

I think you underestimate people. Not everyone is Murray, OMG CRASHED MY CAR!

Regardless they've bought the game already and will enjoy it for hours and hours.

The cars control fine, it's the rest of the buttons I struggle with, the telephone, jumping onto cars instead of into them. Pressing a button to go up a ladder ffs! I mean, I'm going to stick with it but I don't think a lot of people less dedicated than I will. The most difficult thing about this game, to me, is controlling it/remembering what the buttons do. Not saying they're bad controls just there's too many of them. And for a game all about freedom that's a bit of a shame. I know the ladder thing is a tiny point but pressing a button to go up a ladder! What is this, the 1970s? There are enough buttons to press already!

But it is awesome. It's amazing. But with regard to your mum knowing about it whereas she hadn't heard of Halo, I don't know what that proves apart from this game is more contraversial - I also think you show this game to a none gamer and most times you'll get the reaction "Well, it's a computer game, isn't it." And we'll be all, "Yeah, yeah, but look, look at this map, look and the size of it, the detail. LOOK!" and they'll be all "Aren't all games like this?" And we'll be all "Fuck no!" and they'll go, "Oh, I kinda thought they were" and we'll go "It's took a THOUSAND people to make this game!"

[Dimahoo]

I will complain about one tiny aspect of the control - and its really small. When you rotate, whilst moving forward - you kinda rotate back to where you started UNLESS you move past a certain point.

Thats if you use right stick to control your walking direction (which is default).