GTA:IV Official Thread

[murray]

Another slight irritation is that literally straight after a mission ends, you get a stupid fucking phonecall when really you need to run away because the police are chasing you.

GIVE ME A MINUTE WOULD YOU ROMAN? I mean for fucks sake, I've just had to kill someone, and now you're ringing me up. Give me a moment to run away from the police would you?

[robdood]

I don't like that the counters in combat seem a bit random.

[Smitty]

And besides, this is the GTA3 of this gen. Vice City and San Andreas next gen are coming, eventually

This I know, and appreciate. I'm sure there's a reason for what I describe. But it still embarrassing that Rockstar spent so much time building an incredible city, involving characters and story, wonderful radio/tv stuff, improved mechanics etc and didn't have time to design engaging missions which displayed a truly next-gen approach.

[Bocuma]

Another slight irritation is that literally straight after a mission ends, you get a stupid fucking phonecall when really you need to run away because the police are chasing you.

Don't you instantly lose your wanted level after every mission?

[Ste Pickford]

its not the story I have a problem with. its more the 'gamey' elements. If I park a car round the back of a laundrette to block a van in that I know will be used for a getaway, I dont expect the car to have magically vanished after the cutscene. This is NEXT GEN GTA, theyve had 5 years to work out the most important things to fix.

I failed that mission on first attempt, and that trick of blocking the van in round the back was the first thing I thought to try on my second attempt at the mission. After reading on here people talking about how it's not like Crackdown and things don't disappear when you turn your back, I was a little bit disappointed. I can understand why they reset everything for a mission, but it's a bit out of step with the rich complexity of the non-game aspects of the world.

After playing it a fair bit now, and never playing a GTA properly before, I'm very impressed, and also disappointed.

I'm amazed at the believability of the city. It's beautiful, amazing, and totally convincing. Full of funny little details and only semi-scripted events. I love the story and the characters. Easily the best written / acted / performed story in a video game I've ever seen, and probably the only one I've seen that wouldn't be out of place or embarrassingly bad if it was actually a movie.

I'm disappointed in the game itself. Having to start missions from the beginning - often miles away from their start point - feel archaic in 2008. Not only annoying, but as I said, out of step with the cutting edge nature of the cosmetic aspects of the product.

It seems as if incredible work has been done in all categories other than the 'game' itself. Storyline and integration - brilliant. Audio and visuals - astounding. Technical achievements - incredible. Cosmetic aspects of the world (the way NPCs react to you) - unbelievable. It's absolutely top class in all these categories. But in actually gameplay - the ways you meaningfully interact with the world - it all feels last gen.

Much more interesting gameplay things were happening in Oblivion, where you could approach the missions in different, more creative ways, do things in a different order or completely back to front.

And, so far, the city feels less interactive than the one in Crackdown. It's superficially miles better - bigger, prettier, more alive and convincing. But when I turn my phone off and go for a wander, I can't find much to do. It feels a bit dead. Perhaps it's because I'm not that bothered about shooting or hitting people - maybe all the work has gone into that. I'm running around and it feels a bit dead - non interactive - underneath the glamour. I think in Crackdown I had both the ability to jump about and get to new and surprising locations (rather than being tied to the floor), and the ability to pick up and throw vehicles, which meant that I could get cars and ramps into new and surprising locations, so end up driving around on the roof of a skyscraper, or getting an SUV into a lift and taking it to the top floor. I've spent a couple of hours running round in GTA (still only on the 1st island), but I haven't found anything to actually do other than soak in the atmosphere (example - I found a go-cart track just near the 1st safe house, with a hole in the fence. Cars magically won't fit through the hole in the fence, so it's purely cosmetic).

It's interesting reading the comments on here, because nearly everyone is raving about either the non-interactive stuff (the excellent story, cutscenes, characters, acting, script etc.), or the emergent, dynamic stuff (the brilliant way the NPCs react on the streets), or the atmospherics (the look and sounds of the city). Hardly anyone is talking about great gameplay.

Ultimately I think it's a shame they didn't pour the same level of effort, talent, know-how and money into the gameplay (the bit I'm most interested in), as they did into all the other (for me, less important) aspects of the game.

Before I get slated for this, I'm not trying to be a killjoy. I'm thoroughly enjoying myself. It's a 10/10 for me. Just a shame it's not the 11/10 it could have been

[Smitty]

I don't like that the counters in combat seem a bit random.

No, you're just pressing the button at the wrong time.

They're not at all random, I assure you.

[murray]

I do love the game, don't get me wrong, it just hasn't progressed in all areas like I thought it would.

[evilwallpaper]

While it does seem they've put a lot of time and effort in to things that make the world feel fuller like the internet and the TV shows. I really have no desire to spend hours and hours reading a fake internet in a game when I could be flying planes and base jumping from great heights.

Advancement in some areas, step back in others, still a fantastic game despite it being a slight let down.

[Fugitive]

Is the game (too) dark for anyone else except me?

It seems the vast majority of mission I do are late in the evening or at night. Sometimes I can't see anything, especially when it is indoors or in an alley. I have set the brightness of the game to max and I still can't see shit. I'll be damned if I have to max it even more out by altering the brightness of the telly.

I've left the [in-game] brightness and saturation sliders at their default positions and moved the contrast up to maximum then knocked it back three 'clicks'.

This has transformed the game on my TV and although its still dark in places, I can now see most things I need to even at night.

[robdood]

No, you're just pressing the button at the wrong time.

They're not at all random, I assure you.

Ok, well the thing is, I'm pretty good at counters in games like DMC3, Virtua Fighter and Street Fighter 3 - in GTA the timing is very weird. I guess I should only try for them on the more obviously big wind-up hits

[murray]

It seems as if incredible work has been done in all categories other than the 'game' itself. Storyline and integration - brilliant. Audio and visuals - astounding. Technical achievements - incredible. Cosmetic aspects of the world (the way NPCs react to you) - unbelievable. It's absolutely top class in all these categories. But in actually gameplay - the ways you meaningfully interact with the world - it all feels last gen.

Much more interesting gameplay things were happening in Oblivion, where you could approach the missions in different, more creative ways, do things in a different order or completely back to front.

And, so far, the city feels less interactive than the one in Crackdown. It's superficially miles better - bigger, prettier, more alive and convincing. But when I turn my phone off and go for a wander, I can't find much to do. It feels a bit dead. Perhaps it's because I'm not that bothered about shooting or hitting people - maybe all the work has gone into that. I'm running around and it feels a bit dead - non interactive - underneath the glamour. I think in Crackdown I had both the ability to jump about and get to new and surprising locations (rather than being tied to the floor), and the ability to pick up and throw vehicles, which meant that I could get cars and ramps into new and surprising locations, so end up driving around on the roof of a skyscraper, or getting an SUV into a lift and taking it to the top floor. I've spent a couple of hours running round in GTA (still only on the 1st island), but I haven't found anything to actually do other than soak in the atmosphere (example - I found a go-cart track just near the 1st safe house, with a hole in the fence. Cars magically won't fit through the hole in the fence, so it's purely cosmetic).

Totally totally with you on that.

It's a pity you can't drink in a bar unless you're taking a mate out, for instance.

[Talk Show Host]

I do love the game, don't get me wrong, it just hasn't progressed in all areas like I thought it would.

It has progressed more than the next gen Halo 3s or Call of Duty 4s of this world.

[Fugitive]

It has progressed more than the next gen Halo 3s or Call of Duty 4s of this world.

On a technical level? Emphatically yes.

Gameplay wise? I'm not so sure...

[spanx]

It is a weird one.

I can't stop playing. I think the scope of the environment and all the little details are just incredible. Burning around the city is great (I haven't even opened up Manhattan or whatever it's called in game yet) and it just feels so vibrant and alive. And I think the controls are pretty good too. I disliked the PS2 GTA games; I never thought they offered anything like the experience that the hype suggested, and the cities felt like ghost towns. With GTA4 I feel they've nailed the experience of being in a big city beautifully.

And yet it is, after everything, a bit boring. And the design flaws raised by kerraig et al are spot on. Some variation in missions would be nice, although only being 20% in I'm willing to give it a break here, as long as they do start deviating from the drive/kill/escape template at some point.

I don't know, typing this I've almost brought myself back around to the OMG AMAZING viewpoint, but I know I'm going to flip it on later and be faced with another samey mission that involves traipsing across Broker, dying and repeating.

Still, OMG AMAZING really. Just.

[Simmy]

Christ, if you like it you like it if you don't you don't.

Simple, really. I love it.

[murray]

Christ, if you like it you like it if you don't you don't.

Simple, really. I love it.

You do realise this is a discussion forum, right?

[Uzi]

On a technical level? Emphatically yes.

Gameplay wise? I'm not so sure...

Well in Halo you would use combat the same way as the other games. In fact the brutes were a step back. It's the multi that pushed it forward.

COD4 the setting, presentation and setting made it great to play, but it was still the spawning triggering duck shooting gallery that it had been since Call of Duty 2. Again, multiplayer made it essential.

You do realise this is a discussion forum, right?

Do you think in hindsight, you were too hyped?

[spanx]

Christ, if you like it you like it if you don't you don't.

Simple, really. I love it.

What a stupid comment. I love it, but dislike some things about it.

[spanx]

Oh and I haven't played the multi-player yet (SONY LOL etc....)

Noticed some invites popping up last night just as I was about to go to bed so I'm assuming the Sony servers are fixed now. Looking forward to some of that action

[Rayn]

It's funny to see people now come out and say how little the game has changed since the GTA 3 series.

I think herein lies the beauty of GTA4...all the new stuff that's been incorporated have been done in a way to almost make them invisible or second nature for the player, and that's innovation. I loaded up San Andreas last night, played it for two hours and couldn't believe how old it felt compared to GTA4.

I'm not talking about the graphics here, but the controls felt looser, the lack of cover was weird, the animations looked like bad stop motion cartoons, the drawdistance was worse, only 5 pedestrian models per area, clunky shooting/aiming, all interiors are instanced, hence needing to load, most cars handle far more 'arcadey'...the list is very long. I'm not saying San Andreas is shit now that we have GTA4, far from it, but saying that GTA4 haven't evolved at all is just complaining for the sake of it.

[murray]

Do you think in hindsight, you were too hyped?

Yeah, I was totally too-hyped, but the game just doesn't seem to push the boundaries where I thought it would. Missions seem to have taken a step back for one thing, as someone else said earlier.

[Smitty]

Yeah, I was totally too-hyped, but the game just doesn't seem to push the boundaries where I thought it would. Missions seem to have taken a step back for one thing, as someone else said earlier.

[murray]

Noticed some invites popping up last night just as I was about to go to bed so I'm assuming the Sony servers are fixed now. Looking forward to some of that action

LOL.

I've been receiving invites since day one, but the game disconnects when I accept one.

I didn't have time to quote you, sorry Smitty.

[Smitty]

It's funny to see people now come out and say how little the game has changed since the GTA 3 series.

I think herein lies the beauty of GTA4...all the new stuff that's been incorporated have been done in a way to almost make them invisible or second nature for the player, and that's innovation. I loaded up San Andreas last night, played it for two hours and couldn't believe how old it felt compared to GTA4.

I'm not talking about the graphics here, but the controls felt looser, the lack of cover was weird, the animations looked like bad stop motion cartoons, the drawdistance was worse, only 5 pedestrian models per area, clunky shooting/aiming, all interiors are instanced, hence needing to load, most cars handle far more 'arcadey'...the list is very long. I'm not saying San Andreas is shit now that we have GTA4, far from it, but saying that GTA4 haven't evolved at all is just complaining for the sake of it.

I don't think anyone is saying that, though. Certainly i'm not.

I've gone to some length to explain how much more....vital this feels than the previous games in the series. It has definately involved in that sense, and it's a great expererience, no doubt.

I just don't see how anyone could deny that SA had more interesting missions.

[Uzi]

Yeah, I was totally too-hyped, but the game just doesn't seem to push the boundaries where I thought it would. Missions seem to have taken a step back for one thing, as someone else said earlier.

Hype hurts a lot man. I may have been excited in the later days, but I'm always a cynical man at heart.

I enjoyed Mass Effect, Bioshock etc because I didn't give in to any of the hype before it whereas a lot of people were sorely dissapointed, to the extent of totally hating the games.

A.Creed was rubbish though. Lovely game engine with no game underneath.

[Smitty]

I didn't have time to quote you, sorry Smitty.

It's alright, babes.

[robdood]

Ok, so since I never completed San Andreas, what was so amazing about the missions in it compared to IV? I mean, I did about 50% of SA, but it was still pretty much just drive-shoot-drive-pickup-object-drive in that, too..

[Uzi]

Ok, so since I never completed San Andreas, what was so amazing about the missions in it compared to IV? I mean, I did about 50% of SA, but it was still pretty much just drive-shoot-drive-pickup-object-drive in that, too..

I finished San Andreas and I don't remember missions being that much better in any way. But then it's been four years.

I certainly remember a lot, if not most of them involving shooting (turf missions, the graveyard attack) and in hindsight they were fucking TERRIBLE due to the horrible combat

In GTA4 I remember going up a block of flats, with my AK poised and zoomed in, taking cover, picking off people with headshots, throwing grenads AFTER cooking them- bloody amazing. More simple perhaps but a core element a lot more fun and not broken.

[murray]

I just don't see how anyone could deny that SA had more interesting missions.

And countryside. And Jetpacks. And barbers. And gyms. And you could bomb about on a BMX at four oin the morning wearing nothing but boxers.

[robdood]

I saw an awesome skydiving from plane-to-plane mission whilst at a mates house once. But to be fair that was still just drive-fly-kill-jump-drive Is it the lack of scope for stuff (i.e planes) that's the problem then?