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Sony: MS copy everything we do


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Why would the controller be bundled? There will be people who aren't interested in the Virtual Console or have no Internet access to make use of it.

Yeah, but the download service would lack the impulse appeal of Live Arcade if you had to go out and buy a new controller to use it properly. I thought that sort of dipping in would be something Nintendo aimed for. I dunno, probably won't be an issue, I imagine the little casual titles will be Wii-specific downloads anyway.

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I'd be this much surprised |---------------------------------------------| if they didn't bundle two Wiimotes with the console... you won't see a "classic pad" though. Nintendo are encouraging developrs not to use it, so, the best way to do that is to make sure it's not bundled and can't be relied on.

IT'S FOR OUR OWN GOOD.

You forgot Burnout 3 and Soul Calibur 2. And RE4. And the rest of the good GC thirdparty games.

not sure I agree with the first 2... RE4 - yeap, ok, I'll give you that.

Thing is... for games designed around the cube controller, it was/is great. Logical A/B buttons, click through shoulders and a great and precise analogue stick.

3rd party games that didn't give much thought about how to make their games fit on the pad did suffer.

It'll be the same for Wii.

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That's not really a fault of the controller, though, that's just because the controller's not a Dual Shock (which obviously most games are designed for). Whereas the Xbox controller pretty much was, so porting was simple.

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spose... games designed around the LCD Dual Shock controller didn't port well. I agree. WHAT - ONLY 2 SHOULDER BUTTONS...??!!?!

I'll still maintain that the cube pad, of all of them, is the most logical pad to use. Ask someone who's never used a pad before to pick what is select and cancel on the cube pad and the Dual shock... especially when they then play MGS and it's reversed!! argh.

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Because the basic gamepad, the Dual Shock, is extremely poor these days. It is extremely uncomfortable to use, designed for when 2D games with 2D control was still prevailant. Things change, things evolve, things improve, and apparently the design of the Dual Shock doesn't.

bollocks.

the dual shock was designed for 3d games when 3d games were prevailent. The digital playstation pad may have been designed for 2d games (although i wouldnt go that far), but the analogue pad, and thereafter the dual shock were definately designed for 3d games (twin sticks was first used on sony hardware for a 3d mech game iirc - that was a virtua on joystick effort).

I really don't understand how people say the dual shock is uncomfertable, nevermind extremely. Do you people actually have flexible hands, or has too much xbox1 (1st pad) and DC pad use crippled your hands beyond repair?

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Absolutely. The GC pad is a too small creaky torture device with the worst button layout known to man.

I really don't understand the hate the GC pad is getting. The button layout is dead clever IMO. All the buttons are distinct and easily distinguished by shape, size, colour and placement, and they are all easy to reach from the "home" position on the A button. Even the Z button is fine if used properly, which admittedly it wasn't in a lot of games. The wavebird was a revelation, and is now being copied by the other two. And maybe my hands are small, but to me it was by far the most comfortable pad last gen.

Granted, the GC pad wasn't great for lazy identikit multiformat titles.

EDIT: I never have to look at the GC pad to find a button. Ditto the Dual Shock, but that's only because I have used the bloody thing for ten years now. The xbox pad, on the other hand... the ergonomics are OK but I'll be damned if I can find the black/white buttons without looking down at the pad.

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The wavebird was a revelation, and is now being copied by the other two. And maybe my hands are small, but to me it was by far the most comfortable pad last gen.

Wavebird was a revelation? Why? Wireless controllers are/were nothing new. Atari had them in the late 70s, and they have been avaliable for md,snes,ps1, ps2 etc. okay, so none of them were official (bar Atari's), but the logitech one for ps2 was licensed which is close enough.

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Wavebird was a revelation? Why? Wireless controllers are/were nothing new. Atari had them in the late 70s, and they have been avaliable for md,snes,ps1, ps2 etc. okay, so none of them were official (bar Atari's), but the logitech one for ps2 was licensed which is close enough.

It was the first solid, high quality wireless controller I have ever used. I doubt I'd trust my monkey in a ball to any of the controllers you mention, but the wavebird is just such a joy to use.

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I really don't understand the hate the GC pad is getting. The button layout is dead clever IMO. All the buttons are distinct and easily distinguished by shape, size, colour and placement, and they are all easy to reach from the "home" position on the A button. Even the Z button is fine if used properly, which admittedly it wasn't in a lot of games. The wavebird was a revelation, and is now being copied by the other two. And maybe my hands are small, but to me it was by far the most comfortable pad last gen.

Granted, the GC pad wasn't great for lazy identikit multiformat titles.

I dislike the small size, the creaky uncomfortable triggers (painful fingers after extended Metroid Prime sessions for example) and I always mix up the X and Y buttons because they're not colourcoded and are too hard to tell apart in the heat of the action. And then that useless little yellow c-stick, why not a proper stick there?

It's not that it was completely unusable or anything, I've used it for many hours and still live to tell the tale. But compared to the Xbox 360 pad, Xbox S Controller and Dual Shock 2 controller it is definitely my least favourite.

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I always mix up the X and Y buttons because they're not colourcoded and are too hard to tell apart in the heat of the action.

It's probably not by design (as evidenced by the SNES/DS button layout), but if the A button is "home", you'll find Y on the y-axis and X on the x-axis. Easy.

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Wavebird was a revelation? Why? Wireless controllers are/were nothing new. Atari had them in the late 70s, and they have been avaliable for md,snes,ps1, ps2 etc. okay, so none of them were official (bar Atari's), but the logitech one for ps2 was licensed which is close enough.

Infrared though, innit? As in, you have to point it at the console to work?

Wavebird used radio, and it was flawless. My favourite pad.

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I don't see how you can repeatedly fuck up the X and Y button. Once or twice when getting used to the pad... After that... :wub:

I get them mixed up... but only when 'told' to press one of them, not when actually knowing where a button is. Like, in Paper Mario 2, when it tells you to press a certain sequence of buttons, it says "X", and I have to think which one is X and which one is Y. But simply using them in games, I have no trouble. I know that the upper button is fire missiles and the side one is morph ball in Metroid, for example.

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I get them mixed up... but only when 'told' to press one of them, not when actually knowing where a button is. Like, in Paper Mario 2, when it tells you to press a certain sequence of buttons, it says "X", and I have to think which one is X and which one is Y. But simply using them in games, I have no trouble. I know that the upper button is fire missiles and the side one is morph ball in Metroid, for example.

That's where games should have had a little picture of the button instead of just saying X or Y, you wouldn't even have to look at the pad that way, you'd just know if it was to the top or side.

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Are you honestly saying the DS2 is better than the GC pad?

Ignoring the Z-Button. Nobody used that.

I like the GC pad, it is better than the PS2 pad in some ways but it has too many issues. Dont get started on Satan's button configuration. I understand why shigsy went for it, but he didnt realise that they had already perfected the layout 10 years previously with the SNES. Innovating just for the sake of it is dangerous.

As it stands the DS is my favourite pad, all it needs is a Nintendo quality stick and Dpad :wub:

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bollocks.

the dual shock was designed for 3d games when 3d games were prevailent. The digital playstation pad may have been designed for 2d games (although i wouldnt go that far), but the analogue pad, and thereafter the dual shock were definately designed for 3d games (twin sticks was first used on sony hardware for a 3d mech game iirc - that was a virtua on joystick effort).

The Dual Shock is a butchered version of the original pad, designed for 2D games, originally designed as a cheap alternative to flight sticks rather than as a proper controller:

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I really don't understand how people say the dual shock is uncomfertable, nevermind extremely. Do you people actually have flexible hands, or has too much xbox1 (1st pad) and DC pad use crippled your hands beyond repair?

The 1st gen Xbox and DC pads were fine for me (aside from the fact the Xbox pad triggers make my fingers numb), and I thought the GC pad was wonderful. My hands automatically adjusted to where everything should be.

But the Dual Shock is horrible. I have to put my left hand in a weird position so I can stretch my thumb over to the analog. The hand "settles" where the D-Pad and the buttons are. It's just not comfortable to use the sticks. Put the analogue where the D-Pad to stop the stretching, then we'll start arguing the Dual Shock isn't that bad. And that's not even mentioning it's shockingly bad "analogue" buttons (the Xbox did it so much better) and the fact it feels as flimsy as hell.

Original PSX pad = Decent enough design for 2D games, Japanese Saturn pad is better

Analogue Pad and original DS = Okay, not a fantastic design and uncomfortable to use the sticks. Obviously designed to compete with the Saturn/N64 analogue

DS2 = Like the DS but only worse.

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I never thought the DS2 was uncomfortable, actually it fits my hands well and I can use it for hours without any complaints. My only criticisms are a lack of triggers (sorely missed in racers and shooters) and the infamous 'dead zone' of the analogue sticks which usually don't bother me, but get in the way when very precise steering is required.

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