Re-makes

[Guest alisdair]

Why do some re-makes work so much better than others?

I just recently finished Metroid Zero Mission, which I thought was a fantastic reworking of the original. It's been years since I first played Metroid, and I never completed it, but Zero Mission had me enthralled til the end.

On the other hand, I tried MGS: Twin Snakes on the cube a while ago, and while I loved MGS, this didn't really feel right. I think it was the ability to shoot in first person that changed it too much.

And Mario 64 on the DS, while technically impressive, was just plain wrong. I think Nintendo have acknowledged this by dropping the thumb-strap from the Lite. You just can't do decent analogue control on a handheld, and you can't have Mario 64 without analogue control.

Some other re-makes are on the borderline between genius and suckage. Mario All-Stars, for example: it was great to play Lost Levels for the first time, but Super Mario Bros doesn't seem right with prettier graphics. Part of its charm is the blocky, strange-coloured sprites, that we're seeing coming back in Super Paper Mario.

One other thing: with the demise of the GBA, and Nintendo's back catalogue market for the Wii, is there any point in doing remakes any more? The DS has only had Mario 64 remade for it, and I can't see anyone remaking games for the three next-gen consoles.

So what's the magic formula for a great re-make? And will we be seing any more of them?

[Hello Goaty ♥]

What the hell is that new Shadowrun game trying to do?

I want it completely removed AWAY! from any association with the Snes one.

[Dr Derek Doctors]

What the hell is that new Shadowrun game trying to do?

I want it completely removed AWAY! from any association with the Snes one.

Bad news then, apparently the full title for the new game is "Shadowrun: The Sequel To The SNES One - That's right, SNES. SNES SNES SNES".

[footle]

You just can't do decent analogue control on a handheld

I'll take issue with this.

I'd be surprised if the next generation of (sony) handhelds don't feature some sort of analogue control that's a step up from the PSP nub...

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

The rule of thumb seems to be that it should be faithful to the original when it comes to feel and experience, but brought up to date with today's techniques and insights.

So Zero Mission is good, because it takes everything that made the original great (level design, concept), improves on it with extra content and tweaks, adds some great graphics and brings the gameplay in tune with Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion as that's what we're used to now.

And Twin Snakes fails because it takes out some of the stuff that made the original great (level design, AI behaviour, concept (considering the FPS aiming)) and replaces it with questionable alternatives. I suppose that it'll be OK for someone who never played the original though.

[danbot]

Blah.

No mention of Resident Evil? Fantastic, remake, added decent extra content and reworked celebrated scenes with aplomb. If a devco can take a great classic and make it worth buying again, I don't see a problem. Better than sequels with a few minor tweaks and prettier graphics.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

I'll take issue with this.

I'd be surprised if the next generation of (sony) handhelds don't feature some sort of analogue control that's a step up from the PSP nub...

Agreed. I think the PSP nub works pretty well (although I seem to be the only one?) and I can definitely see a better alternative coming up. If it's embedded in the casing and then a controller on both sides it could work fine on a handheld. Also, when handhelds go further into 3D and move closer to home consoles, dual stick setups are needed. The PSP already has issues now with games that would benefit from it.

[TheShend]

No mention of Resident Evil? Fantastic, remake, added decent extra content and reworked celebrated scenes with aplomb. If a devco can take a great classic and make it worth buying again, I don't see a problem. Better than sequels with a few minor tweaks and prettier graphics.

I'm playing through Resi Evil 4 on a US cube, considering i never played through any other Resi Evil game (because the 1st one's controls put me well off) no.4 is really floating my boat. So would the RE-makes be worth a look? I probably have a wee bit more patience now as well

[Guest alisdair]

So would the RE-makes be worth a look?

Maybe. I love RE4 (doesn't everyone?), but the other games feel very dated now if you haven't played them before. They don't seem to be related to each other at all. Instead of a feeling of panic about whether or not you can kill the hordes of villagers, you panic because you can't kill a single zombie, because you can't see to aim, and you can't run away because you can't see where the fuck you're going.

On the other hand, everyone in the world apart from me thinks Resident Evil is the best re-make ever, and you can probably get it for a fiver now. So it wouldn't hurt to try.

[danbot]

I'm playing through Resi Evil 4 on a US cube, considering i never played through any other Resi Evil game (because the 1st one's controls put me well off) no.4 is really floating my boat. So would the RE-makes be worth a look? I probably have a wee bit more patience now as well

I would have to say no. You are now spoiled by 4 so the chances of you putting up with the controls in Re-make are slim. If you can, borrow it, because if you do get past the control it's pretty great.

On the other hand, everyone in the world apart from me thinks Resident Evil is the best re-make ever, and you can probably get it for a fiver now. So it wouldn't hurt to try.

If you can get it for £5 then you have to give it a chance.

[Spunky Monkey]

Was gona start a thread on this too, i personally think their should be more remakes. But what i want is mainly an update fixing the problems of the original, rather than what a lot of movie remakes do which is totally change the look and plot and everything.

Sonic Adventure is a great game (IMO) but fixing the pop up, clipping and camera issues, plus some of the other bugs whilst improving the graphics slightly (making sure not to lose their charm in the process) would for me be one of the best things ever.

But there will be bad remakes, with games it more difficult than movies, in that you not only have to capture the look right but how it plays. Imagine Tony Hawks with next gen graphics but a crippled grinding system, it'd totally ruin the game and the experience.

[Beertiger]

Maybe. I love RE4 (doesn't everyone?), but the other games feel very dated now if you haven't played them before. They don't seem to be related to each other at all. Instead of a feeling of panic about whether or not you can kill the hordes of villagers, you panic because you can't kill a single zombie, because you can't see to aim, and you can't run away because you can't see where the fuck you're going.

On the other hand, everyone in the world apart from me thinks Resident Evil is the best re-make ever, and you can probably get it for a fiver now. So it wouldn't hurt to try.

No way! They don't feel dated, they feel different. I always compare them to the Alien films. RE is a slow tense horror flick like Alien while RE4 is a balls to the wall action packed Aliens.

[Tequila]

No way! They don't feel dated the feel different. I always compare them to the Alien films. RE is a slow tense horror flick like Alien while RE4 is a balls to the wall action packed Aliens.

Yeah.

Play it. Even if you absolutely hate it, you're in for a graphical treat. It's absolutely gorgeous.

[henofdoom]

I remember hating the first Resident Evil, perhaps because I was quite young and inexperienced, and so I ended up binning it.

When I *finally* picked it up (after I'd played RE4) i thought it stood up quite well. It's certainly very pretty, and a few new gameplay additions improved the experience for me. Of course, I still had to use a guide because I couldn't be arsed to work out all the ultra-obscure 'go here and pick up item, then go over there and replace item with other item' nonsense.

It was definitely superior to the original, unless the count the loss of the Oscar worthy intro movie.

[Number 28]

I was going to mention Resident Evil as an example of a bad remake. I went back to it not long ago, and all the things I could once tolerate, I can no longer stand in a post Resident Evil 4 world. Apart from the graphical overhaul (which granted, is gorgeous), all the original's faults still remain. The static backdrops which flick from one to another, meaning sometimes you run straight into the clutch of a zombie directly on the next screen. The limited inventory system (no dropping items like RE0) forcing you to go back and forth suffering dozens upon dozens of painfully slow door animations. The use of ink ribbons...if they had just not taken up a slot in your inventory, it would've been much less annoying...

All these features I perceive as faults, they soon kicked to the kerb for Resident Evil 4, and I cant help but imagine how amazing a remake of the original could be now with all the additions number 4 brought to the table. In full 3D they could easily portal off the entire mansion, meaning no door animations, no loading times. Zombies...hunters bursting from one room to another. I don't believe the original's atmosphere would be entirely obliterated by adding RE4s emphasis on action, but if you want that sort of thing there's RE0, and the original RE 1-3 for that (albeit with slightly shonky graphics by todays standards).

Too different from the original you say? Well for me it takes more than sparkly new graphics to make a remake worthwhile.

[Beertiger]

It wouldn't work, it would be a completely different game to Resident Evil because it's more about shocks that shooting things.

Now RE2 would lend itself to an RE4 style remake very well. Especially when the police station get infested.

[Number 28]

But, you could have the shocks, and accurately shoot things? Extra double good (imo)!

[CarloOos]

I don't think RE4's controls would lend themselves to the caustrophobic environments of RE anymore than the originals would. It's all set in tight corridors and small rooms, the movement in RE4 is far more freedom-based and is basically too fast to work in such tight spaces, you'll be running into walls and stopping and starting just as much as you ever were.

[Number 28]

You could open them out a bit if there was a problem? There are quite a few interiors in RE4 after all. I just think it would've been pretty straight forward if it were made after RE4, what with the engine and mechanics in place. Sadly it was made before. A RE2 remake in the vein of RE4 would be fantastic also as Beertiger says.

[Corporal Flashback]

Mario All-Stars, for example: it was great to play Lost Levels for the first time, but Super Mario Bros doesn't seem right with prettier graphics.

I actually thought the reworked music detracted from it more than the graphics.

[Garwoofoo]

The REmake is by far my favourite Resident Evil game. RE4's nice, if you like linear shoot-em-ups. I don't, particularly, so RE1 beats it hands down for me.

[Pob]

I'd like to see a Deux Ex remake. The original had such an ace atmosphere and story, but they struggled to make it look good (although they did a good job at the time). I'd like to play through it again, but I know I couldn't stomach the dated engine, lack of physics, poor combatm massive load times etc.

Wouldn't it be great to play a souped-up Deux Ex with seamless transitions between levels?

[Kayin Amoh]

Given all the love for REmake, I feel kind of bad saying that I thought it was terrible. The fact that I knew the story already wasn't the worst of it, it's more that it felt like the exact same game with a few tiny new sections and some rather nice graphics.

All the gameplay aspects that so many games have done so much better now remained intact, and the door opening sequences should have been put to sleep. Post Resi 4 I honestly can't go back to the older titles, simply due to the amount of door loading involved - my efforts in trying to play Resi Zero again ended before I even got off the train.

There have been some lovely remakes, but I'm damned if I can remember them at the minute.

I just read Number 28's post - a redesigned gameworld for RE2 built to accomodate the RE4 engine would be nails. That's a real remake - RE4's what I feel a sequel should really aim for, and it would work for a remake as well. If you don't like the new style, there's always the original to fall back on.

[henofdoom]

I think they should just leave previous RE's alone. I don't think any of the series would lend themselves well toward being REmade with RE4's scheme.

[daveodeth]

I'd like to see a Deux Ex remake. The original had such an ace atmosphere and story, but they struggled to make it look good (although they did a good job at the time). I'd like to play through it again, but I know I couldn't stomach the dated engine, lack of physics, poor combatm massive load times etc.

Wouldn't it be great to play a souped-up Deux Ex with seamless transitions between levels?

After the embarrasment that was invisible war i'd be loath for anyone to touch it.

Edit: There are a few mods for the original DX, dunno if any of them make it look better but the gameplay changes are ace. Oh and if you've upgraded since playing before it'll load much faster.

[Number 28]

I think they should just leave previous RE's alone. I don't think any of the series would lend themselves well toward being REmade with RE4's scheme.

I think anything is doable, but yeah, make sommit new. It always makes me cringe when people ask for a FFVII remake. As if Square Enix don't bring out enough FF products to keep them occupied.

[Roblet]

Well, I never played PS1 Resi 1, but REmake is one of my fave games of this gen. Great graphics, great pacing, great atmosphere. I did watch the intro movie from the original though, and... well. I'm glad I saw it, but it also made me kind of glad that I ended up playing REmake first. Seriously, can PS1 Resi 1 possibly ever have been anything other than hilarious..?

[danbot]

... Seriously, can PS1 Resi 1 possibly ever have been anything other than hilarious..?

Apart from the poo intro and Sunset Beach acting, PS1 Resi did a great job at the time. My jaw was pretty much on the floor throughout. If you want to know about hilarious, check out Alone in the Dark.

[Number 28]

It was a massive part of the original's charm though... The awfully bad lines, and the incessant waving of the arms to emphasise every word.

[danbot]

It was a massive part of the original's charm though... The awfully bad lines, and the incessant waving of the arms to emphasise every word.

Totally. It was genius the way you would laugh at "Jill, the master of unlocking" then load your pants as a seemingly dead body tries to eat your leg.