The 3D Thread

[Asura]

Yeah, they do look too dark. Your last page looks a little unorganised imo, I think it would look cool if it was arranged like the ICO homage picture montage. Good luck with the expo! you've got a ton of great work to show.

I decided to re-render those images to give them a higher level of contrast. I'm also going to look at the last page once more.

[Asura]

OK, the files went to the printer today. Now I just have to wait until mid-week for them to be printed, then collect them on Friday. Thanks for your help all.

[Rossco]

Good luck, knock em dead!

[rundll]

The comments I'm after are more about the presentation and portfolio itself, rather than the work it contains. What I'm saying is that I'm leaving for the expo a week-on-monday and I need to find a printer/binder before then, so there's no time to make any alterations to the work contained within; all I can do now is axe something if it's detrimental to the overall quality of the portfolio.

/1601/fddb7016002033.gif

I would suggest putting the DS stuff at the back, below the PSP bit. Bump up the Plane.

Also be sure to decide what you enjoy doing most. Don't just say "anything". Environments? Objects? New Artists usually do objects so it can't hurt to say you like it.

[Asura]

I would suggest putting the DS stuff at the back, below the PSP bit. Bump up the Plane.

Also be sure to decide what you enjoy doing most. Don't just say "anything". Environments? Objects? New Artists usually do objects so it can't hurt to say you like it.

Too late now; it went to the printers this afternoon.

[Rossco]

Got a few models going right now in Lightwave.

Started doing a house interior. Taking a while as I'm going into alot of fine detail but it's good to learn as it's what I want to do when I finish uni, architectural modelling. Also started today to model a human head starting from just a box. Spend a good 3 hours on it and it's coming on well, but not really what I wanna get in to so don't know if I'll finish it or not.

Tried to take a few snapshots there but I suck at doing stuff in Layout right now. And the head I'm doing is all polygony, not smooth like it appears in Modeler. What's the deal with that?

[g wings]

Got a few models going right now in Lightwave.

Started doing a house interior. Taking a while as I'm going into alot of fine detail but it's good to learn as it's what I want to do when I finish uni, architectural modelling. Also started today to model a human head starting from just a box. Spend a good 3 hours on it and it's coming on well, but not really what I wanna get in to so don't know if I'll finish it or not.

Tried to take a few snapshots there but I suck at doing stuff in Layout right now. And the head I'm doing is all polygony, not smooth like it appears in Modeler. What's the deal with that?

Hmm, long time since I have used LW but either you have the render set to non raytraced or your surface textures are set wrong... Maybe???

[Rossco]

I'll figure it out, not had much time to get back to working on them at the moment anyway. Just done this wee walk cycle today. Putting skelegons in a box. Worked out quite well for first attempt. But the focus for next two weeks is modeling and animating a helicopter in Lightwave so need to get started on that.

I know the video is shit by the way, and it seems to slide along the floor but I thought I'd post it anyway.

[Asura]

Just updated my portfolio site. It's basically now just a gallery for the printed portfolio I took to the Eurogamer Expo. I'm posting it here because it's slightly different to the version I posted a while back.

http://asura.stantoworld.co.uk/index.html

[utero2001]

god I've been away from this thread for a while, nice gundam stuff asura

I still haven't pulled my finger out and re-modelled that starchaser model yet

sitting at work all day working on max makes it difficult to come home and do it too, i dunno how my workmates manage to do it

think there was a guy a few pages back starting a course on max, sorry i didn't note your name, with max just try and go through as many basic tutorials as you can and learn the basics, and then try and learn as many cool techniques and short cuts from tutors and other workmates. I've been using max for 7-8 years now and I'm still learning stuff all the time

editable mesh FTW

[Anaardvark]

god I've been away from this thread for a while, nice gundam stuff asura

I still haven't pulled my finger out and re-modelled that starchaser model yet

sitting at work all day working on max makes it difficult to come home and do it too, i dunno how my workmates manage to do it

think there was a guy a few pages back starting a course on max, sorry i didn't note your name, with max just try and go through as many basic tutorials as you can and learn the basics, and then try and learn as many cool techniques and short cuts from tutors and other workmates. I've been using max for 7-8 years now and I'm still learning stuff all the time

editable mesh FTW

I believe that may have been me

I've downloaded a couple of Lynda.com video tutorials (Essential Training and Beyond the Basics), however this assignment has to be in by Tuesday and I haven't got time to go through them and I'm really struggling with lighting and the materials editor. I think I jumped the gun and tried to make this assignment over ambitious and shot myself in the foot. We've only been doing it for 3 weeks and I wonder why I'm sat scratching my head trying to figure out mental ray lighting. I've jumped past the deep end, right into the ocean.

Even worse, I'm only half way through Dead Space and have Fallout 3 and Rock Band 2 arriving this week but promised I wouldn't play them (for more than an hour or 2!) until I finish this damn assignment yet I seem to be getting further from the end rather than closer!

Even still, I'm really enjoying everything that I'm doing and I have learnt far more than I thought I could have done in such a short time and once it IS finished it should at least look pretty cool

[Rossco]

How have things went then Asura, any luck?

[Rossco]

Well after messing about with other classes for uni and being quite lazy in general I've got down to some work the last few hours and started to model a helicopter for assignment due in on Friday that we've had for weeks! I really need to get a grip!

Anyway, this is the model so far, I think I'm finished modelling, and gonna move onto texturing now. Might go back and clean some things up as I go along but nothing major. Then we have to animate it flying round a course that has been given to us as a scene file for Lightwave already.

Obviously it's not amazing but not bad considering I done it all today and made it up as I went along, didn't follow tutorials or anything.

[Rossco]

Yeah so UV mapping is bloody annoying as hell, couldn't get anything line up and half the time the map was too confusing to even attempt drawing on. So just ended up colouring it normally. It'll do for now I think anyway. I'll add more detail as I go along.

[Rossco]

Update:

Decided to add more stuff to the heli as it was still quite plain. No-one else had done this so I thought I'd add the space in the middle with the seats as it will be quite cool to see through from one side to the other as it flies by the camera and it means I can stick a camera inside it too which should look sweet.

Also added a wee mini cockpit but not alot of detail or anything, but means I actually have a use for making the window transparent now.

Now to animate it!!!

[Rossco]

Keeping the thread alive on my own here! No-one else seems interested.

A quick video of the choppa in action just testing it out before I start the animation properly tomorrow. Still gotta add decent texture to the environment.

[Capwn]

Shapes a bit odd and texturing is basic but well done on doing it so quickly

[Nicky]

well, yesterday i decided to get back into some 3d stuff. Its been a good 3 years or so since i used any 3d application properly. I used to use Softimage XSI. but yesterday i decided to install 3D Studio, and set myself a challenge of building myself a prop to be used in Unreal Engine 3 in 4 hours. i learned the following,

the Max UI,

box modelling, stack and modifiers in max,

the material editor

uv unwrapping

Normal map creation and application

and although its by no means perfect and the uv mesh is totally fucked, and wrong.

but the results are here -

[Capwn]

Nice. Welcome to the land of 3D Max.

[Nicky]

Thanks. Tonight i will rebuild and improve this barrel. I shall keep doing this until it is of exportable quality!

[Asura]

Just a tip - Unreal Engine 3's normal maps can be really subtle; sometimes you need to exaggerate the effect of the map for it to even show up.

[Rossco]

Shapes a bit odd and texturing is basic but well done on doing it so quickly

Shape was supposed to be cartoony initially as that's what the assignment was for but I've since got carried away and your comment on texturing hit a nerve so this is what I've came up with so far!

[Nicky]

Just a tip - Unreal Engine 3's normal maps can be really subtle; sometimes you need to exaggerate the effect of the map for it to even show up.

Thanks for the tip.

Last night i spent a good while playing wiht just the unwrap feature (i know i could have used cilindrical projection for this, but i wanted to practice properly.

Tonight... Mudbox!

[utero2001]

I've been told MAX 2009 is out, I'm still using Max 8

nice chopper rossco, seems like your getting to grips with it pretty fast, able to post any wireframes? some tutors may be looking to see a lower poly model too (if your at uni that is)

[Rossco]

nice chopper rossco, seems like your getting to grips with it pretty fast, able to post any wireframes? some tutors may be looking to see a lower poly model too (if your at uni that is)

Cheers mate, no-one mentioned that before but obviously it does make sense to be able to model well in as low poly as possible if it's for games especially.

This is the final animation here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHfDrolO4XM

http://www.vimeo.com/2244189

Vimeo is a bit better quality for some reason the high quality isn't appearing on the Youtube video.

Animation isn't really my forte, and not what I'm intending to focus on so it's by no means perfect but compared to alot of other people in the class it's bloody great!

It's the modelling I'm really interested in so most of the time was spent on that so along with the video, we had to hand in 5 still images, and this is the ones I used:

And the wireframe too:

Obviously there are loads of polys used for the piping around the window, door opening and the legs as well so I'll need to play about with that in future to see if I can drop some polys without losing too much detail!

But now that's done, next assignment isn't due until January for that class where we have to model a microwave, a human, a jacket and some sort of glass piece.

[Cheeko]

"Broad range of work covering different subjects. No traditional art/drawing. Work quality is competent but in no way outstanding."

I'm a little puzzled. My work is "broad"? It used to be broad, because I did modelling, texturing, animation and design. About 2 years ago I started my portfolio from scratch, doing only modelling and texturing, as I felt those were the areas in which I was strongest. I don't really follow how I could further narrow it down, unless I ONLY do something really focused - but wouldn't that make finding a job even harder? I also didn't realise places would want traditional art.

You've misunderstood, in fairness they obviously didn't read their email properly before sending it, but I'd be grateful that they even responded, most places won't.(I applied to about 40games companies when I did my industrial year during my degree, 2 replied, one of those was Blitz and I ended up working for them for the year) They do get a LOT of showreels, and most will be utter shit and it really wears you down(I now have personal experience with this and I can confirm responding to everyone takes dedication) In fairness tha email pretty much perfectly sums up everything you need to know.

What that first sentence should've said was 'We need to see a more broad range of work covering different subjects'

Having just had a look through your portfolio website I'd agree, what work you've done you've done competently but it's pretty basic, the shapes are largely boxy and primitive. Hard surface modelling is the easy part, make some characters(don't try and design your own, you're not applying to be a concept artists, use a reference image to model to) do some organic modelling and more complicated geometry.

'No traditional art/drawing'

If you don't have many models to show you'll need to back it up with traditional art work to show your abilities, although if you have enough good modelling then that'll speak for itself.

'Work is competent but in no way outstanding'

As they've stated the work you've completed shows some level of ability and I'd say you have potential but you need to prove you can fulfil that potential by taking your work to the next level.

It's a tough market out there in 3D these days but with some savvy and choice quality pieces of work you can still distinguish yourself from the crowd. The best thing you can do is go away and do more work and show a willingness to improve and dedication.

[Cheeko]

It's the modelling I'm really interested in so most of the time was spent on that so along with the video, we had to hand in 5 still images, and this is the ones I used:

But now that's done, next assignment isn't due until January for that class where we have to model a microwave, a human, a jacket and some sort of glass piece.

I'm going to be brutally honest about this in the hope that you'll do something about it if you're genuinely looking at a career in 3D.

That model is terrible, utterly appalling, I mean, even though you left it so late looking at the dates on your posts I'm presuming you had a couple of days at least to work on this?

Your biggest and most classic error is not doing the relevant research. Before starting ANY project sit down and think about what you're going to be doing and, especially in this case, if they've asked you to model something that exists, go and get reference images of that exact thing. Then, base your work on that and attempt to get it as close to the reference as you possibly can.

Be totally honest about your own work, does that model you've created really look like any helicopter you've seen in the sky, or does it look like something someone made up from a vague memory? It's obvious you didn't research the project properly.

[Rossco]

You're just a bit of a twat aren't you. I've already said it wasn't supposed to be realistic. We were told NOT to copy a real life object, make a design up ourselves and make it look 'cartoony' if we can. Which admittedly mine does not. I was going to cel shade it for the cartoon look but was enjoying going for realism instead so thought I'd just finish the model that way.

Considering I've now been learning Lightwave for 8 weeks on and off amongst other modules I think I'm doing pretty well. Lecturers have said so and compared to the vast majority of people in my class, my work is considerably better. Only people who have came from 3D background are producing better work which is expected.

You may think you're being helpful saying what you said but you're not. If it was a little constructive criticism I'd take it onboard, but you are just blindly criticising a complete amateur who has barely started learning 3D which is quite demoralising so maybe think before you speak next time because you're not being helpful at all.

[Capwn]

Well he did say it was cartoon style but rossco, as a starter I'll give you some advise to take on board (no pun lol!!) for next time...

- Overall the shape does work (though a bit toooo basic) but the main problem is the door area, it doesn't follow the shape of the body that well. This is most apparent in the front perspective view.

- For cartoon style the texture is not too bad, it's good that you have broken up the window and door with trims but the inside area has a really bad choice of texture (very cliche) and isn't broken up at all. If there was a trim on the inside also it would help break it up. I'd use a more basic metal material for that also.

Not bad for a start though, the front is quite a nice shape and the 'landing ski's' (not sure what they are called tbh) do the job, I like how they are curled.

[Asura]

I'm going to be brutally honest about this in the hope that you'll do something about it if you're genuinely looking at a career in 3D.

That model is terrible, utterly appalling, I mean, even though you left it so late looking at the dates on your posts I'm presuming you had a couple of days at least to work on this?

If you read back in the thread a bit, you'll see that Rossco first approached a 3D program under 6 weeks ago. He's literally just started a degree in this subject area.

There's being helpful, constructively critical, then there's being blunt and dismissive. He's just started so Capone and I, without needing any kind of communication about it, decided to go down the route of tact and diplomacy.

Yes, the model is basic, the texturing is simplistic, and it's subdivided to buggery - and there are probably all manner of other problems. What you don't realise though Cheeko is Rossco has almost certainly been taught a set of skills, and then been told to utilise them to complete a set brief.

We've all made poor models or basic models when we started. My first ever 3D model, a mech made in Bryce from a tutorial in 3DWorld magazine was similarly basic. That doesn't mean it wasn't a valuable learning experience. There's no need to jump up and down on his beginner-standard work.

As for my stuff:

What that first sentence should've said was 'We need to see a more broad range of work covering different subjects'

This is surprising. Everywhere I spoke to at the Eurogamer Expo (I had a printed version of my portfolio) gave me different advice about this - more focus, a broader range of work, more environments, do characters, AVOID DOING characters... I've realised now that advice of this nature from industry professionals is going to vary so much from company-to-company that I just have to take the middle road and try to improve myself.

Having just had a look through your portfolio website I'd agree, what work you've done you've done competently but it's pretty basic, the shapes are largely boxy and primitive.

I don't know. Take my New York buildings; I modelled those from a set of photographs I was provided. I'd argue the texture work on them is to a pretty high standard, and buildings are boxy by definition. The GM mobile suit isn't organic, fine, but it isn't exactly boxy either. And yes, the Advance Wars models are boxy but then they're less than 150 triangles. Also, are you a specialist modeller? You don't seem to have commented on my texture work, which is a substantial portion of the portfolio.

make some characters(don't try and design your own, you're not applying to be a concept artists, use a reference image to model to) do some organic modelling and more complicated geometry.

One of the main things I was told by EVERYONE at the Eurogamer expo was that character artists only do characters. Everyone else does everything else. Basically they said you want either a portfolio with only characters, or a portfolio with none, because it's wasted work. I was recommended to pursue environments from now on, because everyone there liked my portfolio, but they wanted to see a larger environment to something like Gears of War standard. That's actually what I'm working on now.

'Work is competent but in no way outstanding'

As they've stated the work you've completed shows some level of ability and I'd say you have potential but you need to prove you can fulfil that potential by taking your work to the next level.

Part of the problem is the portfoio that received this comment was older. It didn't have the GM Custom model/textures, and the rest of the work was presented poorly, with less explanation of what was there. The portfolio I have now has better work with better exposition, so I'm concerned that you think this. I also removed my Unreal mapping work because I felt that it didn't match the standard of everything else.

This is the issue now; I have improved a LOT since I left uni. My work now is to a much higher standard than it once was. The problem I'm having at the moment is a lot of the feedback I get conflicts with other feedback, and the Eurogamer expo concerned me further. I had people looking at my work and just saying "oh, you need polycounts" only to have me say "yes, they're on the page, HERE" <points>, which was an incredible visual display of how little actual time these recruiters put into reading peoples' work at times.

I decided after coming back that the next bit I needed was to produce something people can't argue with, something that looks genuinely ripped out of the best looking game on the market - well, I'd argue Gears is the peak of technical and visual excellence so Wroth and I are tackling an environment of that quality.