Saints Row then.....

[MDK]

But with good physics and explosions which provide hilarity at every turn, great gunplay and battles (as opposed to shocking gunplay), a properly customisable game character (as opposed to a buff black guy whose hair you can cut), more than 3 cars on screen, more than 2 types of car onscreen, cops which actually chase other people as well if they do bad things (as opposed to tending only to you) and even ignore you when you're wanted if the other guys are *more* wanted, snipeable helicopter dudes, and stacks of fun stuff to do besides.

But it has way better aesthetics anyway.

If GTA4 omits half of the sheer goodness added to the formula by Saints Row, it's going to wind up second best.

The gunplay is better, for sure, but the art direction is really, really dull. GTA is full of vibrant, well thought out environments that have lots of easily reconizable features and little touches that contribute to the overall experience and I didn't notice that in Saints Row.

The technical stuff, well it is on the 360 and San Andreas pushed the PS2 to its limit.

Having said that, I'm so bored with these sort of games that I'm not sure what even GTA4 is gonna add to the mix (apart from online play) that'll keep me playing for more than a few hours.

[memories]

Nah, you just get a new crib each time you finish one of the Gang Stories.. i.e all Los Canales missions or all Rollerz missions.

Ahhh. Shit. Ive been doing all the missions up untill i have the very last one of each gang to do.

Time to get one gang fully done to see some cash.

[Karzee]

I started this game yesterday in earnest and so far haven't found any of the missions boring.In fact, when you get past all the 'Boys in da Hood' ghetto bullshit, it's actually really fun to play. It's seriously nicked stuff from the GTA series but it has (so far) kept tedious missions to a minimum.

[Guest]

I failed a mission early through no fault of my own. The girl got outta the car, then stayed there...erm it woudlnt complete. great!

[Monkeyboy]

If GTA4 omits half of the sheer goodness added to the formula by Saints Row, it's going to wind up second best.

I can't really see that happening, can you?

[SomeNaiveChump]

I can't really see that happening, can you?

Sadly, yes, I can. They released many games without trying to fix any of the bits which were fundamentally broken. If they do fix the combat etc, I reckon we can thank Volition for giving them a stern kick up the arse, as well as for giving us a great game in the process.

[Monkeyboy]

Sadly, yes, I can. They released many games without trying to fix any of the bits which were fundamentally broken. If they do fix the combat etc, I reckon we can thank Volition for giving them a stern kick up the arse, as well as for giving us a great game in the process.

I'm at a loss to know what was truly broken in the last GTA game. Driver 3 was broken. San Andreas wasn't. Granted, the on-foot combat is better in Saints Row but that's it. By the time GTA4 rolls around, we'll have a next gen sandbox game that lets you go anywhere in any vehicle with interesting, humourous characters, a setting not lazily copied from a better game and a genuinely fun, well designed city. Not the drab crap fest of a town that is Stillwater.

[SomeNaiveChump]

I think those describing GTA's humour and city design in a good light may be looking through some kind of smeared spectacles.

The 'humour' was no more clever or less crass than that in Saint's Row, for a start. As for 'fun, well-designed' cities? Do I know my way around ANY of LC, VC or SA after over 100 hours on each game? Do I balls. I recognise a couple of areas, that's it, from landmarks and/or unusual road layouts - just as I do in SR.

Granted there were bikes, boats and planes but any other element being 'better than SR' is a figment of a nostalgic imagination. Any sequel to SR will also contain those vehicle sets anyway. The design in Volition's game is just as good, and most elements of gameplay are absolutely superior by country miles. Whether they stole half their ideas from R*/DMA is entirely irrelevant.

Driver 3 was broken. San Andreas wasn't.

Compared to SR, all the GTA3 games are very obviously broken. The missions are no fun because they're poorly designed, they take place in poorly designed environments and the combat and driving mechanics are fun for fucking about but at best completely impractical (descending to maddeningly, entirely useless) in any mission-dependent situation.

The GTA games were NO FUN to play, just (admittedly fantastic) fun to fuck around in. This is not true of SR. It's fun no matter what you're doing because the game mechanics have been given more than eight minutes' thought.

[spacedinvader]

Granted there were bikes, boats and planes but any other element being 'better than SR' is a figment of a nostalgic imagination. Any sequel to SR will also contain those vehicle sets anyway.

Wicked, I did not know that. Looking forward to the sequel now.

However, although I really enjoyed Saints (finished it today) and believed it did have a strong sense of charm, humour and charcter it didn't live up to GTA. There was something about the 'charm, humour and character' of GTA which Saints didn't match. The City layout just didn't compare (dead ends, lack of ramps all sorts). Unlike you synchoronated, I knew my way around SA perfectly - everything felt like a living breathing State that I got to know. Dunnow, lots of good stuff in Saints, and very slickly made accomplished game but lacked the magic. (And i KNOW I haven;t got the rose tints on!).

[SomeNaiveChump]

Wicked, I did not know that.

That's pure speculation on my part, but I'd bet my balls on it. It's the only obvious omission.

Oh and GTA's cities are full of dead ends and lack ramps too. Only on SR you can use the physics or otherwise improvise to sort out your own ramps, and can drive through most fences as they're destructible.

[redbloodcell]

I think those describing GTA's humour and city design in a good light may be looking through some kind of smeared spectacles.

The 'humour' was no more clever or less crass than that in Saint's Row, for a start. As for 'fun, well-designed' cities? Do I know my way around ANY of LC, VC or SA after over 100 hours on each game? Do I balls.

I'm pretty sure I could find my way around LC without much help (kind of a neccesity really, seeing as there's no map), I sure as hell know I can do it in VC and SA is easy in the cities, just sometimes get a little lost in the countryside. Maybe you just weren't paying enough attention to your surroundings when you were driving, eh?

I played Saints' Row a little around a mates house, and it did, however, look and play quite nicely. The Physics were my favourite bit, though, watching cars, people and debris fly through the air like they should was brilliant. Still, I'm sure Rockstar have taken notes and are planning to beat it, put it in concrete shoes and send it to the bottom of the river with GTA4.

[SomeNaiveChump]

I'm sure that'll happen but right now Rockstar are coding from the bottom of that river.

[Monkeyboy]

I think those describing GTA's humour and city design in a good light may be looking through some kind of smeared spectacles.

Not at all. Personally, I think you're just high on the thrill of the new game. It's clouded your judgement.

The 'humour' was no more clever or less crass than that in Saint's Row, for a start. As for 'fun, well-designed' cities? Do I know my way around ANY of LC, VC or SA after over 100 hours on each game? Do I balls. I recognise a couple of areas, that's it, from landmarks and/or unusual road layouts - just as I do in SR.

The humour in Saints Row is very forced and unfunny. Fair enough, the GTA games can be crass but for every miss there's at least three hits. Saints Row misses most of the time. It's painful.

Compared to SR, all the GTA3 games are very obviously broken. The missions are no fun because they're poorly designed, they take place in poorly designed environments and the combat and driving mechanics are fun for fucking about but at best completely impractical (descending to maddeningly, entirely useless) in any mission-dependent situation.

Poorly designed? Poorly designed? You've taken leave of your senses. I guess Rockstar better give that BAFTA back then. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3488592.stm

The GTA games were NO FUN to play, just (admittedly fantastic) fun to fuck around in. This is not true of SR. It's fun no matter what you're doing because the game mechanics have been given more than eight minutes' thought.

Well, I had fun with the GTA games. Sorry you didn't. As I see it, there's no winner here. I'm a GTA fan, you're not. You loved Saints Row, I was crushingly disappointed. Full stop.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

I don't agree that the missions were bad in San Andreas. There were some frustrating ones (flight school mainly), but I got through the game without too much trouble and I enjoyed most of the missions and the whole storyline immensely. The variety in landscapes, towns and cities/'hoods was staggering and that's something that Saints Row lacks severely. The same goes for the characters, although it's not as bad as some people make out. But I miss memorable characters like Tenpenny and O.G. Loc for example.

That said, GTA4 should steal loads from SR. The on-foot combat and shooty bits are so much better. The way you can replay missions. The strongholds! I love the strongholds! Gang warfare. The customizing of character and cars. Being able to retrieve cars. The money and weapon stash in your crib. The way activities and sidemissions actually ramp up and contribute something to the game. General on-foot control.

Man, Saints Row is good. But San Andreas is still that little bit better.

[SomeNaiveChump]

I'm a GTA fan, you're not.

That's not true though. I've probably spent more time on GTA games than everything else combined in the last 4 years. I just realise it had a million crippling flaws which SR does not, and which SR fixes with focused grace and precision. Going (way) back to the GTA3 games is heck of difficult now. I fully expect GTA4 to address this though, perhaps through stealing as much from SR as was stolen from GTA in the first place

[simms]

I don't have the game but I thought this may ber of interest to those that do. Apparently there is an update coming out for this soon with the following updates :

http://developer.saintsrow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8962

0/30/2006 9:05am

The Saints Row Title Update has been approved for release! We will update with exact time later today

Saints Row Title Update on Xbox Live!

The Product Update for Saints Row will be available on Xbox Live. Microsoft provides product updates to anyone with a Live connection, even without a paid membership. If you have a Live connection, you will be prompted to download the update. The update is required to play Saints Row on Xbox Live.

General

Enabled 4xAA (anti-aliasing) for 480i standard-def and 480p resolutions (was 2xAA).

Enabled 4x anti-aliasing during initial player creation screen.

Added player options to enable v-sync during cutscenes and/or gameplay, with warning that it will affect framerate.

Fixed widescreen formatting issues in certain resolutions.

Fixed issue where button icons would sometimes not appear during tagging activity.

Fixed problem where camera could rapidly rotate around player when exiting vehicle.

Added dialog reminding player to save before final mission in the game.

Fixed rare crash bugs due to variants and fast shader constants.

DLC - Car dealership now skips paint selection for car if the car has no color data.

Fixed issue when signing out of a gamer profile on The Wheel Woman unlock screen.

Added missing audio tracks to music stores, including “Pickin’ Boogers”

Added long sideburns and four other missing hairstyles to Shear Intensity salons

Multiplayer

Improvements to the way the game handles packet loss and bandwidth management between players. This addresses issues commonly cited as “lag”, and general synchronization problems between the players’ clients (vehicles/players warping around, etc).

Various bandwidth optimizations.

Fixed connection issues with gang servers (done server-side, update not required).

The system for rating a player’s quality-of-service has been improved, and made less conservative. This means you’ll see many more matches with 10-12 player limits.

Fixed “clothes stealing” exploit. Stolen clothes will be deleted, legit clothes will be unharmed.

Various changes to Matchmaking phase, to get players in the game faster.

Team-based, non-Gang games are now required to have even teams. Gang matches still allowed to be off-by-one to allow easier matchmaking, since single people cannot be matched-in.

Fixed issue that could cause the Blinged Out Ride vehicle to get stuck inside the garage when the driver disconnects.

Fixed crash that could happen during server migration.

Fixed rank reporting errors in Leaderboards for Team Gang Brawl and Team Big Ass Chains.

Fixed problem where end of games stats display could be improperly sorted.

Fixed issue in server migration where statistics would not be properly updated for the newly elected server.

Fixed issue where incorrect server was elected for game size.

Fixed issue where car could get stuck in a chop shop or get pushed out of the level and destroyed.

Added caching to pimp hat and multiplayer chains to reduce delay when they are loaded.

Fixed problem where PC could become bald after importing from single- player savegame.

Fixed problem where multiplayer garages had problems with client vehicles colliding at the entrance with an invisible mesh mover.

Item sync improvements.

Fixed problem that could prevent twelve people from getting into a match due to not having enough security associations.

Points stored in Big Ass Chains are now being reset between games.

Fixed issue where gang stats retrieval could fail and not be retried.

Addressed “standby” hack where a player would temporarily disconnect their network connection to move around without others seeing them.

The proper number of custom vehicle choices now appears for the Hustlin multiplayer level.

Gang sizes limited to 100 members.

Fixed cases where gangs match but not all players get into the game.

Only servers with sufficient bandwidth are selected to host a match.

Fixed bug where multiplayer garages had problems with client vehicles colliding against unseen geometry.

Big Ass Chains points scored stats are now reset between games.

Fixed bug where player would have pipebombs in inventory but would not be able to throw them.

Fixed problem in Protect Tha Pimp where a player would respawn at the beginning of a round in observer mode.

DLC - Always display name of level server has selected, even if client does not have that level downloaded.

[hoot]

Shame they aren't / can't tweak the actual engine so it runs at a playable speed when playing in HD. Turning on vsync is going to put the framerate in single figures.

[SteveH]

That update seems to have been "coming" since release day almost and it's still not fucking here. As someone who is plagued by the aspect ratio bug I am well and truly pissed off.

[Roboplegic Wrongcock]

And the online lag it's pitiful. Lets hope this update fixed that properly...

[Paulando]

Updated this earlier on today, and it does look much better with vsync switched on, everything looks far more solid. Obviously the framerate isn't too hot, but it wasn't great in the first place and I didn't notice much difference.

I'd much rather miss a few frames than have my character and all of the buildings around him split in fucking two when I move

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

So it's here! About time too.

[Roboplegic Wrongcock]

It worked like a charm online is now very smooth.

[Yoshimax]

Online on this now - da bomb. This was due to be traded at the mid of next week against COD3 or next against GOW but looks like it'll be kept for its unique online crazy shit

[Splendid]

Going (way) back to the GTA3 games is heck of difficult now. I fully expect GTA4 to address this though, perhaps through stealing as much from SR as was stolen from GTA in the first place

I do hope not.

[Paulando]

Har har.

If you can't see that Saint's Row has taken various things from the GTA series and improved them greatly (particularily the combat system), you're fucking blind.

[Splendid]

If that's so, pass me a white stick.

Putting SR's questionable qualities to one side for a moment, is the policy of stealing from others such a beneficial one? I would rather that Rockstar dealt with GTA's flaws independently, rather than being influenced by also-rans. After all, they are the foremost authority of the jack-of-all-trades criminal caper.

[kerraig UK]

If that's so, pass me a white stick.

Putting SR's questionable qualities to one side for a moment, is the policy of stealing from others such a beneficial one? I would rather that Rockstar dealt with GTA's flaws independently, rather than being influenced by also-rans. After all, they are the foremost authority of the jack-of-all-trades criminal caper.

I dunno about the ethical questions of stealing, but I do know that I had an absolute blast with saints row and it is A FAR FAR SUPERIOR GAME TO SAN ANDREAS.

[Splendid]

I dunno about the ethical questions of stealing, but I do know that I had an absolute blast with saints row and it is A FAR FAR SUPERIOR GAME TO SAN ANDREAS.

Kerraig, how can you stand at the front of the class and lie your arse off? And to think, I used to respect you. Slightly.

[kerraig UK]

seriously dude. i played about 20 hours of GTA:SA and at leats 10 of those were spent screaming at the tv at the bad design decisions and frustating missions. The rest was spent admiring the lavish design and superb atmosphere.

I played about 30 hours of SR and about 3 hours were spent screaming at the TV at the derivative script. The rest was spent pissing myself laughing and having a frustration free ball.

[Yartek]

Online on this now - da bomb. This was due to be traded at the mid of next week against COD3 or next against GOW but looks like it'll be kept for its unique online crazy shit

I'd not managed to get a single online game before, but had a good dozen matches of various types the other night. Am completely and utterly hopeless at them all, but it was a laugh.