Sport The Formula 1 Thread

[metallicfrodo]

It's so much have actually having Jake & Co at the races talking to people. It just won't be the same in a studio in London via a video link. EJ can't run up and accost someone when he's half a continent away.

Do we have any idea what the cost of producing F1 is for the BBC over and above the £45mil just for the rights.

[PaB]

Viewers aren't the customers, they are the product.

Er.....

What?

[Wools]

I’ve heard brief snippets of this over the morning and just wanted to confirm the following:

Sky are showing everything live, Free Practises, Qualifying & the Race itself?

BBC are no longer broadcasting any live coverage of the sport on TV, except at a few chosen venues?

BBC 5 Live continue to cover every live event on the radio?

[McCoy]

Do we have any idea what the cost of producing F1 is for the BBC over and above the £45mil just for the rights.

James Allen says it is around £8m per year for the BBC's production costs.

[McCoy]

I’ve heard brief snippets of this over the morning and just wanted to confirm the following:

Sky are showing everything live, Free Practises, Qualifying & the Race itself?

BBC are no longer broadcasting any live coverage of the sport on TV, except at a few chosen venues?

BBC 5 Live continue to cover every live event on the radio?

Yes, No, Yes.

BBC will broadcast 10 races per year. These will be broadcast live and the BBC will also broadcast the corresponding Practice and Qualifying sessions for these races. The other races will be exclusive to Sky.

So then, fingers crossed for less races then!

[Hawkeye]

A pay per view package would be nice but was always unlikely. It would just completely undermine Sky's business model. The whole model works on sports fans paying not only to watch the sports they care about but also having to pay for all the other sports as well.

If they think they can get away with it they'd offer it as pay per view, but it would be expensive. In the same way they offer it for certain Boxing events etc.

From their side it would depend on if they think F1 drives up Sports subscriptions, or would pay per view bring in more revenue.

[PaB]

Sky makes shitloads in selling advertising, adversting that can only happen if Sky can provide the viewers.

So just to clarify, Sky customers aren't actually customers. They are products. And that's because Sky advertise.

So it follows If I buy Edge, I am not and Edge customer, I am a product, cos companies advertise in Edge.

Is that about the size of it?

[McCoy]

If they think they can get away with it they'd offer it as pay per view, but it would be expensive. In the same way they offer it for certain Boxing events etc.

From their side it would depend on if they think F1 drives up Sports subscriptions, or would pay per view bring in more revenue.

Fair point. But it would have to be around £20-30 per race to make it economically attract. I don't follow boxing but aren't we talking just a very few events per year where there is enough demand for pay per view? Although in fairness, 10 or less races is also not many events per year to make people require a subscription. At least with football there are lots of games per year, available no where else, to justify the subscription.

[PaB]

At least with football there are lots of games per year, available no where else, to justify the subscription.

Precisely.

If you were just to get Sky Sports for F1, it's £60 a race.

[Shimmyhill]

I refuse to get Sky Sports, gutted that they have rights now. Fans being held to ransom really, with them keeping 10 races on the BBC, it means that they are using it to make sure fans are hooked and have no choice but to subscribe

Not sure i am with you here, what Devine right do you have to watch F1? Given that there are more people that don't watch F1 than do that pay a licence view i expect the fans are the minority and the BBC can not cater for all - spending more money to please the minority for something that in the big scheme of things has no relevance would be a bad use of licence payers money and rightly so - the trust will have set a cap on how much to spend out of a reduced budget.

ITV & C5 have made it obvious that there is not money to be made in buying F1 rights and as they are commercial stations they were not going to be losing money to show a sport that attracts far less viewers than football etc.

The bottom line here is that market forces have meant F1 needs to move to a subscription model and that the BBC can not fund it wholly and have done the best they can within the parameters they work to. It is easy to knock sky and be 'disgusted' by it all but the reality is F1 is not viable unless partially funded by TV money and that money needs to go up as sponsors drop away - Bernie will see it that he has secured the future of F1 with the deal in some pretty poor economic conditions for top level motor sport.

[Hawkeye]

Precisely.

If you were just to get Sky Sports for F1, it's £60 a race.

Well that's the they need to figure out. From what I've read they plan to show it on the normal Sky Sports channels, which means they think enough people are willing to get Sky, upgrade their package to include Sports, or update their Sports to include HD.

If they didn't think enough would sign up, they could offer each race on Sky Box Office for what ever amount they feel they'd get away with.

If anything all this is just a shock to the system of F1 only fans. There is no logic or reason that F1 like anything else should always be on basic TV. You could argue that point for fans of every sport that you need to subscribe to Sky or ESPN to view their sport of choice.

[MrPogo]

24 million licences and 8 million people watching F1; obviously there are more potential viewers than there are licences, but it's hardly a tiny minority watching it.

[Hawkeye]

24 million licences and 8 million people watching F1; obviously there are more potential viewers than there are licences, but it's hardly a tiny minority watching it.

Each race, average, or a one off?

Edit: A quick look online seems to suggest between 2-4 million viewers on average for the BBC (up to 6 million for certain races), which is well below 8 million TV licences.

[McCoy]

Not sure i am with you here, what Devine right do you have to watch F1? Given that there are more people that don't watch F1 than do that pay a licence view i expect the fans are the minority and the BBC can not cater for all - spending more money to please the minority for something that in the big scheme of things has no relevance would be a bad use of licence payers money and rightly so - the trust will have set a cap on how much to spend out of a reduced budget.

Every single programme the BBC shows is only watched by a minority of the License Payers. The point is that the BBC is meant to be here to provide items for the minority and not just compete with the other channels for how many viewers they can get. However, despite trotting out this line all the time regarding their remit, decisions on whether to continue funding for shows or radio are always made of the basis of how many people watch them.

The BBC can't have it both ways. They are either broadcasting for the majority or they broadcasting items that appeal to all sections of society, majority or minority. With the threatened closure of BBC Radio 6 and the F1 it is clear that the BBC don't think they have a duty to produce items and material which only appeal to the few. And if that is the case lets do away with the License fee and let the BBC pursue its favoured strategy of seeking out the mass market.

I'm a big fan of the BBC but I do think the License fee is more and more outdated. With so many more outlets from which to obtain programming it is far more conceivable now days that someone may have a TV but actually watch no BBC productions. Sky and Virgin have hundreds of channels which have no revenue from the license fee yet a license fee is still required to watch them. And if the BBC are not going to use the license fee to protect minority interests then what is the point of enforcing it?

The current feeling may be to blame Sky but I don't agree with that really. The BBC were clearly desperate to try to get out of showing F1 and Sky stepped in, presumably becuase other free to air broadcasters didn't want the rights either. Sky are the symptom, not the cause in this case.

[mexos]

What depresses me the most is that this is the beginning of the end for any form of free to view F1. Come 2019 everyone will have (unfortunately) come to terms with paying for it leaving Sky to mop up the remaining races without any outrage.

[Hawkeye]

What depresses me the most is that this is the beginning of the end for any form of free to view F1. Come 2019 everyone will have (unfortunately) come to terms with paying for it leaving Sky to mop up the remaining races without any outrage.

Why should F1 be free to view though?

What is the justification over numerous other sports that could gain viewers and interest with the exposure F1 has received in being free to air? I think this is more outrage at people being used to it for free, and expecting that would always be the case.

[gospvg]

Why should F1 be free to view though?

What is the justification over numerous other sports that could gain viewers and interest with the exposure F1 has received in being free to air? I think this is more outrage at people being used to it for free, and expecting that would always be the case.

I agree on this point, I would have though all the football, Cricket, Rugby other sports with England should be more free to air than F1 (British GP Exception)

But it still does not detract that I am sad by the decision

[GwiDan]

The sad thing is I guess the only people really worth complaining to are the sponsors, tell Santander that they're not getting the exposure in the UK that they where before.

I think this is a better idea than signing endless petitions. It'll hit the teams, and will directly affect Formula 1's income.

[Wools]

Yes, No, Yes.

BBC will broadcast 10 races per year. These will be broadcast live and the BBC will also broadcast the corresponding Practice and Qualifying sessions for these races. The other races will be exclusive to Sky.

So then, fingers crossed for less races then!

Thanks for the clarification Charles.

When I first heard the news on BBC Breakfast, the only words to describe what I was feeling was fucking fury. Ive never felt like that about a sport before, but F1 is a passion of mine. Ive watched it since I was a child and with only the UK Licence fee to pay, I watched it during the Murray Walker era on BBC and as it transitioned to the good ITV coverage. As it returned to the BBC, Ive been able to keep up with the Free Practise sessions with the wonderful BBC Text Feed on its website, and its been backed up by the best presenters and commentary team the sport has ever had with BBC HD & BBC 5 Live.

All this has changed because some money grabbing cunts at CCV decided they can get even more. Only Bernie Ecclestone has the foresight to deal with a company that has Rupert Murdoch owned shares, as his company is being destroyed by the world wide press and the UK police, and allow them to have a stake in F1! And to top it off, rather than Sky getting full rights so you know where to go, hes split the deal so nothing is clean cut and he can get both companies money in the pot to double dip as he pleases.

In the end, I dont know what to do. The BBC coverage is the best Motorsport coverage in the world and I dont see Sky getting a top line presenter and commentary team anytime soon unless they poach talent. I wont be buying Sky Sports so Im going to miss 50% of the races, so that leaves the brilliant 5 Live team, but with no visuals to accompany the audio, its not what I want from Motorsport.

Although Sky could pull it out the bag and show excellent coverage of the sport, the whole situation is a fucking quagmire with too many parties and too many conflicting interests. Whatever way you look at it, UK fans of F1 now can only watch 50% of the live races and have to cough up for a Sky Sports subscription.

CCV, FIA & FOTA have benefitted. The fans watching the sport are being gutted of racing for the sake of money. Its enough to consider jacking it all in and just buy Autocourse for Christmas every year.

[PaB]

Why should F1 be free to view though?

What is the justification over numerous other sports that could gain viewers and interest with the exposure F1 has received in being free to air? I think this is more outrage at people being used to it for free, and expecting that would always be the case.

Because the current FOTA greement insists it should be on free to air television.

Because without that, sponsor will walk away or reduce payments, and they are lifeblood of the sport. Now presumably Sky are covering the shortfall that will occur when sponsors point out that th epotential UK audience has dropped from 60 million to 6 million (or whatever it is).

You are right, there is no ultimate reason why it should be free to air. It's a bit shit that's its not going to be though.

[Yewone]

Small crumb: Sky have confirmed no adverts during races (Autosport).

Yeah but you can guarantee they will cut to adds the second the chequered flag is passed!

There isn't a single positive thing that can be said about this news.. been an avid fan for the past god knows how many years.. After hitting such a high with the recent beeb coverage, this is the biggest kick in the bollocks imaginable!

[mexos]

Because the current FOTA greement insists it should be on free to air television.

Because without that, sponsor will walk away or reduce payments, and they are lifeblood of the sport. Now presumably Sky are covering the shortfall that will occur when sponsors point out that th epotential UK audience has dropped from 60 million to 6 million (or whatever it is).

You are right, there is no ultimate reason why it should be free to air. It's a bit shit that's its not going to be though.

Couldn't have put it better myself. +1

[JohnC]

I'd like to have seen the banners if they announced this before the British GP.

[GwiDan]

Yeah but you can guarantee they will cut to adds the second the chequered flag is passed!

"The chequered flag, sponsored by Barclaycard"

[Bushby]

So just to clarify, Sky customers aren't actually customers. They are products. And that's because Sky advertise.

So it follows If I buy Edge, I am not and Edge customer, I am a product, cos companies advertise in Edge.

Is that about the size of it?

Sky customers on average spend over £500 annually on Sky products. In doing so, they are signaling to advertisers that they have a level of disposable income which allows them to do this. This makes Sky customers, and in this case Sky Sports customers, very attractive to advertisers.

It's interesting you mention Edge, because newspapers and magazines use this model too.

So the answer is you're both, and I'm guilty of exagerating earlier to make a point (which, in terms of FTA TV still stands).

[mexos]

"The chequered flag, sponsored by Barclaycard"

[McCoy]

Thanks for the clarification Charles.

When I first heard the news on BBC Breakfast, the only words to describe what I was feeling was fucking fury. I’ve never felt like that about a sport before, but F1 is a passion of mine. I’ve watched it since I was a child and with only the UK Licence fee to pay, I watched it during the Murray Walker era on BBC and as it transitioned to the good ITV coverage. As it returned to the BBC, I’ve been able to keep up with the Free Practise sessions with the wonderful BBC Text Feed on its website, and it’s been backed up by the best presenters and commentary team the sport has ever had with BBC HD & BBC 5 Live.

All this has changed because some money grabbing cunts at CCV decided they can get even more. Only Bernie Ecclestone has the foresight to deal with a company that has Rupert Murdoch owned shares, as his company is being destroyed by the world wide press and the UK police, and allow them to have a stake in F1! And to top it off, rather than Sky getting full rights so you know where to go, he’s split the deal so nothing is clean cut and he can get both companies money in the pot to double dip as he pleases.

In the end, I don’t know what to do. The BBC coverage is the best Motorsport coverage in the world and I don’t see Sky getting a top line presenter and commentary team anytime soon unless they poach talent. I won’t be buying Sky Sports so I’m going to miss 50% of the races, so that leaves the brilliant 5 Live team, but with no visuals to accompany the audio, it’s not what I want from Motorsport.

Although Sky could pull it out the bag and show excellent coverage of the sport, the whole situation is a fucking quagmire with too many parties and too many conflicting interests. Whatever way you look at it, UK fans of F1 now can only watch 50% of the live races and have to cough up for a Sky Sports subscription.

CCV, FIA & FOTA have benefitted. The fans watching the sport are being gutted of racing for the sake of money. It’s enough to consider jacking it all in and just buy Autocourse for Christmas every year.

Agreed. One silver lining is that the BBC say they will have extensive highlights so perhaps this will be enough to keep us happy for the races we can't see live. It's a pity we didn't see the idea that was bandied about about Sky showing the races live and BBC showing the complete race but delayed. That would have been an acceptable compromise. Sky could have everything live and the BBC could show all the races but delayed. The BBC wouldn't get any of the practice or qualifying sessions. Still not a great compromise but I think I would prefer such a situation to the murky waters we have now regarding who shows what and when.

[Sidewaysbob]

It's going to make the prediction updats shorter if nothing else.

"and this week Hamilton beat Alonso according to Autosport ....... sorry"

[GwiDan]

£48 per race.

That's astonishingly poor value. The football comparison is unfair, as there are hundreds of Premiership football matches shown on Sky a year.

[morcs]

£48 per race.

Seriously? Megalols

Surely just save that and put it towards a long weekend at Spa with some decent grandstand tickets instead