Sport The Formula 1 Thread

[JPR]

Hamilton meets Horner after the race, leads to more speculation of where he'll be in 2013, he certainly seems to becoming more frustrated with McLaren recently.

[morcs]

You know when wheels hit the wall you get a flash, is that the magnesium combusting like at school?

[SharkyOB]

Such an amazing race yesterday, I'm so glad I sat through the red flagged part to see the epic end.

I'd like to discuss some of the worrying trends yesterdays race brought up though, namely over-cautious stewards with regards to rain generally and also incidents when overtaking.

It's pretty obvious that they held the cars far too long before releasing them on the restart - if the track is ready for inters by the time they're released then what's the point in having the full wets? I understand that F1 cars run low to the track and aquaplaning can be a serious problem, but it seemed that visability was the major concern yesterday. It seems that this is the rule now which is a concern for future wet races. Will we never see another proper grid start in the wet again? I think that the race should have started normally, but the decision to red flag it was a no brainer so they got that one right!

My other point, I'm getting sick of seeing 'incident between cars x and x are being investigated by the stewards'. This is happening every time cars touch now and the stewards are making a rod for their own back, like a football referee showing a yellow card for an innocuous challenge early in a match. They are not taking conditions into account and we're seeing some harsh penalties (I don't agree with the Di Resta penalty yesterday at all).

Obviously just my opinion and like I say the race was amazing. I think these worrying trends (which have been creeping in for a few years now) could affect the sport more in the future though. Do you think it's something which needs to change? Is this a natural side effect of the current qualifying format and the parc ferme rules which prevent teams from changing the cars after Saturday?

[JPR]

Obviously just my opinion and like I say the race was amazing. I think these worrying trends (which have been creeping in for a few years now) could affect the sport more in the future though. Do you think it's something which needs to change? Is this a natural side effect of the current qualifying format and the parc ferme rules which prevent teams from changing the cars after Saturday?

For a while now I've wanted to see the parc ferme rules removed, let's have cars properly set-up for the conditions they're racing in. At the very least allow them to make the changes necessary for a wet race, surely you can make a case for it on safety grounds, hopefully we'd then see everyone being less cautious. I used to really like the prospect of wet races, being a Schumacher/Ferrari fan helped obviously, they should be real tests and challenges for the drivers but they seem a bit of a joke now with a safety car at the merest shower almost, I'm firmly in the Brundle camp.

Also agree on Di Resta, I think the fact that only he got a damaged car and had to do a lap with half a wing was punishment enough. I'd have let him get on with it and pull him into the stewards after the race just to give him a bit of a talking to about what a silly move it was and how easily it could end up with a penalty. Don't know what would have happened with Hamilton and his move on Webber but even though I thought it was completely his fault I'd have given him the benefit of the doubt with the weather and a talking to like Di Resta.

They went unnoticed yesterday and to be honest for all I know it could have been the case before the race, but HRT are ahead of Virgin in the constructors, which can have a big impact on the prize money at the end of the season and simply be embarrassing if you're Virgin.

[Snowman]

You know when wheels hit the wall you get a flash, is that the magnesium combusting like at school?

I hope not. I'd like to think they're sensible enough to use a form of magnesium that doesn't lend itself to violent combustion, but I may well be wrong.

My other point, I'm getting sick of seeing 'incident between cars x and x are being investigated by the stewards'. This is happening every time cars touch now and the stewards are making a rod for their own back, like a football referee showing a yellow card for an innocuous challenge early in a match. They are not taking conditions into account and we're seeing some harsh penalties (I don't agree with the Di Resta penalty yesterday at all).

Agreed. It's one of those things that has crept in so slowly over time that I haven't really noticed the changes taking place, but now it's getting ridiculous. Surely when this whole business was introduced, it was to punish drivers who clearly made very deliberate and/or dangerous moves, like Schumacher nearly shoving Barrichello into the pit wall last year. Now, as you say, every single contact is being investigated. Either the rules need rewriting or the stewards need to operate with far more discretion when dealing with these incidents.

[kiroquai]

As opposed to last year where Virgin were clearly better than HRT and finished behind due to HRT's reliablity rather than pace, you have to say that this year HRT really deserve to be ahead as well.

EDIT: Shit, sorry Snowman - bumped your reply by starting a new page. Will post it below!

I hope not. I'd like to think they're sensible enough to use a form of magnesium that doesn't lend itself to violent combustion, but I may well be wrong.

Agreed. It's one of those things that has crept in so slowly over time that I haven't really noticed the changes taking place, but now it's getting ridiculous. Surely when this whole business was introduced, it was to punish drivers who clearly made very deliberate and/or dangerous moves, like Schumacher nearly shoving Barrichello into the pit wall last year. Now, as you say, every single contact is being investigated. Either the rules need rewriting or the stewards need to operate with far more discretion when dealing with these incidents.

[Cheeko]

When the last safety car came in I was shouting at the Virgin car that was inbetween Button and Webber, don't know who it was but they just refused to move offline to let him through even before the SC meant they had to stay in order. Then when they were released button had to go onto the damp circuit to pass them. That's something I would actually like the stewards to look at more harshly.

[morcs]

Did anyone notice that during the last lap of the second safety car, which came out after the Alonso/Button incident, Button did a 1:31 lap to catch the back of the field? He actually went purple in the middle sector.

[fragglerock]

It is magnesium burning off. Big chunks of magnesium (like wheels) are pretty hard to get burning but when scraped along a wall the flakes will burn pretty well.

[JPR]

As opposed to last year where Virgin were clearly better than HRT and finished behind due to HRT's reliablity rather than pace, you have to say that this year HRT really deserve to be ahead as well.

I completely forgot about that, so, ummm... Seem to recall now they also had one of the best reliability records on the grid as well. Yeah they do deserve to be ahead at least, but I wouldn't throw too many plaudits at either of them, at least Lotus have shown signs of moving up the grid at times. Will be interesting to see what happens with Virgin now, separated from Wirth have Marussia behind them, not sure what that brings in terms of finance though, guess they may write this season off to some extent but surely they must start doing something next season.

[SharkyOB]

For a while now I've wanted to see the parc ferme rules removed, let's have cars properly set-up for the conditions they're racing in. At the very least allow them to make the changes necessary for a wet race, surely you can make a case for it on safety grounds, hopefully we'd then see everyone being less cautious. I used to really like the prospect of wet races, being a Schumacher/Ferrari fan helped obviously, they should be real tests and challenges for the drivers but they seem a bit of a joke now with a safety car at the merest shower almost, I'm firmly in the Brundle camp.

This could be the solution, but it would remove the tactical use of setup in qualifying which is a good thing. I suppose it's just hard to get the balance right, but I think something needs to change. It seems as if the stewards are under pressure to keep all the cars in the race so are too willing to use safety cars to ensure this happens.

Agreed. It's one of those things that has crept in so slowly over time that I haven't really noticed the changes taking place, but now it's getting ridiculous. Surely when this whole business was introduced, it was to punish drivers who clearly made very deliberate and/or dangerous moves, like Schumacher nearly shoving Barrichello into the pit wall last year. Now, as you say, every single contact is being investigated. Either the rules need rewriting or the stewards need to operate with far more discretion when dealing with these incidents.

Indeed, did Schumacher even get a penalty for that? That was far worse than anything that happened in the race yesterday, but it luckily didn't result in contact so the stewards didn't get involved during the race.

[Rattlehead.ie]

Indeed, did Schumacher even get a penalty for that? That was far worse than anything that happened in the race yesterday, but it luckily didn't result in contact so the stewards didn't get involved during the race.

fined and a grid hit at the next race if Im not mistaken

[SharkyOB]

Well deserved and probably a more severe penalty than a drive through in the race, so all good there!

[JPR]

This could be the solution, but it would remove the tactical use of setup in qualifying which is a good thing. I suppose it's just hard to get the balance right, but I think something needs to change. It seems as if the stewards are under pressure to keep all the cars in the race so are too willing to use safety cars to ensure this happens.

I'd be happy to remove that, just like I'd give them an extra set of options for qualy so there's no benefit from only doing one run and saving a set for the race. I've always wanted it to be the case that when it comes to the race on Sunday the drivers are in the best position to go out and give everything they can. It's the same with the engines, I don't like the restrictions on the numbers I want to see the drivers giving 100% in the race, not thinking about turning the engine down because it's got x number of races still to do, you don't want to risk running out at the end of the season and taking penalties etc.

[wev]

I'm surprised they haven't tried to say that black man Hamilton pulled a gun on Button to attempt a drive by so Button had to put him in the wall.

[MrPogo]

I hope not. I'd like to think they're sensible enough to use a form of magnesium that doesn't lend itself to violent combustion, but I may well be wrong.

Agreed. It's one of those things that has crept in so slowly over time that I haven't really noticed the changes taking place, but now it's getting ridiculous. Surely when this whole business was introduced, it was to punish drivers who clearly made very deliberate and/or dangerous moves, like Schumacher nearly shoving Barrichello into the pit wall last year. Now, as you say, every single contact is being investigated. Either the rules need rewriting or the stewards need to operate with far more discretion when dealing with these incidents.

Indeed. It's a racetrack, not a nice Sunday drive on public roads where insurance companies need to apportion blame for every scrape. You don't need to assign fault and punishment when someone gets a bit overenthusiastic and makes a mistake, save it for if and when it's clearly a deliberate move to take someone out.

[SeanR]

The Spanish villa in which Mr and Mrs Giggs are working out some local difficulties would not have contained as much bottled-up tension as the house of McLaren when Hamilton and Button came together at the start of lap eight yesterday

Yes, because they're exactly the same thing...

[JPR]

I'm surprised they haven't tried to say that black man Hamilton pulled a gun on Button to attempt a drive by so Button had to put him in the wall.

You didn't look closely enough at the picture then, in fairness to Hamilton it was a good choice. Think it's up to the usual Daily Mail photoshop standards as well.

[marsh]

It is a worrying trend, every single whiff of contact and the stewards are all over it. I thought if you used to be half a car length alongside the car in front then they had to yield. But I'm guessing that's not the case anymore.

I'll happily predict that the hamster will be anywhere other than Mclaren next year. Could give derista the opportunity I think he deserves.....

[Wools]

I thought that Webber has not yet signed the 2012 contract with Red Bull? If so, could Lewis move to Red Bull & Mark to Mclaren?

[myoozikk]

I still can't see Lewis moving from Mclaren. I'm also interested to see the lay of the land after Silverstone & the EBD ban.

[zxcvbnm]

Indeed. It's a racetrack, not a nice Sunday drive on public roads where insurance companies need to apportion blame for every scrape. You don't need to assign fault and punishment when someone gets a bit overenthusiastic and makes a mistake, save it for if and when it's clearly a deliberate move to take someone out.

Apparently Lewis was overheard in the pits on the phone to Claims Direct complaining about whiplash and a sore toe.

[marsh]

I thought that Webber has not yet signed the 2012 contract with Red Bull? If so, could Lewis move to Red Bull & Mark to Mclaren?

I can't see two older drivers at the team somehow.

[morcs]

It'll be down to this Simon Fuller won't it. Was he something to do with the Spice Girls?

[Valver]

The highlight of an epic few hours F1 was surely this though?

[morcs]

Is there a gif of the practice one too?

[Plissken]

On the Stewards investigating thing, surely it is a case of the viewers being told that the incident is being investigated, rather than an increase in investigations? It stands to reason that the stewards will be looking at just about every incident just as part of their job, the difference is that the audience knows about it instantly instead of afterwards.

[Valver]

Is there a gif of the practice one too?

I didnt see any of practice - what happened?

[fragglerock]

When Vetal put it in the wall of champs a marshal jumped over the wall to run and help and fell flat on his face.

end of this vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrzxfACt-9k

[kiroquai]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but... spectator home video from turn 1. Shows a bit of action the cameras missed, most notably Rosberg's front wing collapsing.