Sport The Formula 1 Thread

[marsh]

There isn't a difference, they're all regulated by the FIA and rules should apply consistently. People come through various feeder series, it's inconsistent to say "yes, that kind of overtaking is fine in DTM but you're not allowed to do it in F1". Just look at Di Resta's performance. You're encouraged to have a go in other series, in F1 everyone throws their toys out of the pram if you challenge the established racers or people who believe they hold sway.

DTM, touring cars etc, aren't built like F1 cars, and that kind of half and half stuff is more common because it doesn't always end someone elses day. Comparing it to any open wheel series just isn't the same.

I love Hamiltons agrresion, but yesterday he pushed the boat out a bit too far IMO. If I behaved like that at a quad race, I'd end up with a slap from someone in the car park and some kind of meeting ban.

[the_debaser]

There's a fine line between racing aggressively and being reckless and Hamilton crossed it. You can't just put the car where he did and then moan that someone drove into you.

[marsh]

There's a fine line between racing aggressively and being reckless and Hamilton crossed it. You can't just put the car where he did and then moan that someone drove into you.

This. The end.

[morcs]

There isn't a difference

Apart from the obvious open vs. closed wheels

There'll always be a bit more bumping and aggression in closed wheel formulae because the consequences are usually less severe. Your argument would be better to compare GP2 and F1. I don't follow GP2 well enough to know whether they allow more aggression there though.

[marsh]

Like other people, I'd rather see Lewis drive like a mad man than watch journeymen tootle around the track. Senna comparisons are on point for me.

Bar the two prost incidents, I really don't recall him making moves that he wasn't going to pull off. It's well documented that at the time you were given a choice, have an accident or let me through. If he's trying to emulate that then he's going the right way about it. His comments and the 'it wasn't my fault' attitude is a page straight out of the great mans book, but I wouldn't put him in the same league as Senna just yet.

[morcs]

I think we'd all agree that this is how it should be done

[MrPogo]

There's a fine line between racing aggressively and being reckless and Hamilton crossed it. You can't just put the car where he did and then moan that someone drove into you.

Can't moan about it, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try it; it seems the only way to pass at Monaco is to throw the car up the inside in those two positions and hope that the bloke in front gets out the way (as Schumacher did for Hamilton earlier in the race, and how Rosberg did for Schumacher at that horse shoe bit).

[dayte]

I think we'd all agree that this is how it should be done

Yeah but Paul isn't an F1 World Champion, is he

[Monbee]

If Koboyashi had turned into the chicane instead of skipping it when Webber plunged up the inside, who'd have been punished for that? As it was, everyone praised Webber's amazing brave move. Koboyashi's on the usual line for the corner, Webber misses the apex, locks a wheel and only just makes the chicane. It was a good move and it was brave, but it could have taken them both out.

If two drivers get into a situation where no-one wants to get out the way so they both crash, I can see why punishing the one that's trying to overtake would be frustrating, particularly given the big focus on increasing overtaking through technology and rule changes.

The Ali G act was pretty stupid though.

[myoozikk]

Taken from someone on F1 technical but sums it all up perfectly for me...

Obviously from my avatar you can see I'm a big Lewis fan but I'm also an Alonso fan btw...strange? no...I just like great drivers. And Lewi's ability in the car is that of an exceptionally good (maybe one day great?) driver.

His comments after the race were, at worst, ill advised and stupid. He was, however, joking and that is plainly clear to see. It was a crass and stupid joke made in the heat of the moment.

I recall Alonso losing his cool in 2006 claiming his team weren't behind him, I recall Schumi once claiming that David Coulthard one "tried to kill" him. Its sport, emotions run high, this stuff happens.

I am glad to see however that Lewis afterwards went to the FIA and apologised for his comments.

Like I said, his "Ali G" comment was stupid, but he was not genuinely playing the race card. Anyone who genuinely thinks otherwise needs to learn how to read body language.

With regards to the incidents he got his penalties for:

Incident with Massa: To me, this is 100% Massa's fault. BUT, and its a BIG but. I don't believe either of them deserve a penalty. This is why:

Look at the race footage from overhead, look at the lines of the two cars in front, then look at Massa's. Mass turned in approximately one full cars length early. It does make you question is Lewis was right when he claimed on the radio that Massa'a move was "deliberate". I think it was, not in a malicious way, more like Massa suddenly saw the Mclaren and instinctively took a defensive line. The outcome was that Massa didn't give Lewis the space, which is counter-productive as Lewis is committed to the move, he cannot brake any harder lol.

Incident with Maldonado: On this occasion I feel Lewis is to take some share of the blame. The move was optimistic. However Maldonado, if he had any sense at all (running a good race, maybe you might like to avoid contact???) should have maybe tried to leave some room.

Now, I know it sounds at this point like I'm saying "leave room for Lewis to just pass you"...I'm not. What I mean is a great example of how this should be done was Lewis's move on Schumi. And more to the point, Schumi's driving:

Lewis made the move, like the two above, it surprised the driver in front, Schumacher turned in, but when he saw the Mclaren he left room, and still attacked the courner fighting (but avoiding contact) with Hamilton, tho eventually losing out.

The fact is this, if a driver performs an overtaking move, the majority of the time his cars position will be on the racing line at the corner apex...in this case the car in front needs to make SOME room (not much) so they can both fight the corner. Otherwise contact will occur.

I am fed up of this penalty culture we have now. 22 cars racing, you'd assume they will occasionally make some contact. We want overtaking, and for that drivers take a risk. Sometimes the risk doesn't work out. THAT'S RACING. Hamilton is a racer. Schumi is a racer, Vettel is a racer, Alonso is a racer, Kubica is a racer.

And isn't it funny, how they are all the BEST drivers in this sport???

Sure Lewis' driving may divide opinions, but so did Schumacher's, and so did Senna's. And yet, why are they remembered? Oh yes...they were pretty good weren't they.

All this complaining about "driving standards" if frankly pathetic. GET OVER IT. When a footballer gets injured from an accidental bad tackle we dont see the world complaining. Guess what - mistakes happen.

[makkuwata]

Still in Nice, so no photos. But I will say this: turns out I'm all talk.

We took a 7:30 train from Nice yesterday to get a good spot on the hill [mission accomplished] so I was a bit dozy on the ride in, half nodding off.

...then I was stirred with about 2 stops to go, looking out the window on the platform. Mr Twuntface Allen himself boarded and sat opposite us. Beige blazer casually thrown over the left shoulder. I had my opportunity to fulfil a promise I'm sure I've made on here many a time over the years, and I passed it by.

I didn't punch him in the face.

Turns out I was more in a *whisper whisper* huh, that's James Allen, weird. *whisper whisper* mode.

[marsh]

Who is James Allen?

[SeanR]

bunch of hammy tweets just turned up on FB:

Lewis Hamilton

‎2 my fans lost & my fans won, I wish u nothing but love & happiness. God Bless u. Onwards & upwards, Montreal next. Lewis

Published: 2011-05-30 20:47:37 GMT

Lewis Hamilton

‎2 Massa & Maldonado, with the greatest respect I apologise if I offended u. Both of u r fantastic drivers who I regard highly.

Published: 2011-05-30 20:42:24 GMT

Lewis Hamilton

I would also like to say thank u 2 everyone on here, 4 their positive messages & also 2 the angry messages. I can respect them both.

Published: 2011-05-30 20:40:12 GMT

seanr.gif

[dayte]

I agree that it was just Lewis making a joke, were it not that obvious he even made a laugh before and after to state the obvious. The fact that the media, critics and commentators made a meal out of 'the race card' shows the underlying tension and some might say, resentment, towards a black driver in a 'white man's sport'.

I know it's the daily mail, but I read two similar articles today - one of Lewis Hamilton saying that the above was just a joke, and Prince Philip's 'slitty eyed' comment when he visited China back then - despite having the same context the readers comments couldn't be more different. Essentially - whites are never racist even when they are racist; while non whites always play the race card, unless they don't, in which case it was never racist in the first place!

[ryodi]

Still in Nice, so no photos. But I will say this: turns out I'm all talk.

We took a 7:30 train from Nice yesterday to get a good spot on the hill [mission accomplished] so I was a bit dozy on the ride in, half nodding off.

...then I was stirred with about 2 stops to go, looking out the window on the platform. Mr Twuntface Allen himself boarded and sat opposite us. Beige blazer casually thrown over the left shoulder. I had my opportunity to fulfil a promise I'm sure I've made on here many a time over the years, and I passed it by.

I didn't punch him in the face.

Turns out I was more in a *whisper whisper* huh, that's James Allen, weird. *whisper whisper* mode.

Since he stopped commentating on the races I've started to like Allen a lot more. He was nowhere near as annoying as Legard became and his F1 Blog is always worth a read.

[Spoonman]

Like other people, I'd rather see Lewis drive like a mad man than watch journeymen tootle around the track. Senna comparisons are on point for me.

Completely agree. I find button a bore, and many other drivers. Lewis is almost entertaining to watch and I think is one of if not the best complete racing package out there. Frustrating to be a fan sometimes, but this is motorsport not driving a float during a parade (Button).

[exwhyzed]

Button is pure class with his strategies and calm demeanour. He's the thinking man's racing driver. I like that most about him.

[ras el hanout]

You know how you guys hate vettel because he is just in the best car. Well that means none of the others can win unless they're in the best car. So if Hamilton or schumacher win the world champioship they must be in the best car. Because now they're not in the best and they can't win.

[the_debaser]

Taken from someone on F1 technical but sums it all up perfectly for me...

I am fed up of this penalty culture we have now. 22 cars racing, you'd assume they will occasionally make some contact. We want overtaking, and for that drivers take a risk. Sometimes the risk doesn't work out. THAT'S RACING. Hamilton is a racer. Schumi is a racer, Vettel is a racer, Alonso is a racer, Kubica is a racer.

And isn't it funny, how they are all the BEST drivers in this sport???

Lol, what a load of shit.

[morcs]

You know how you guys hate vettel because he is just in the best car. Well that means none of the others can win unless they're in the best car. So if Hamilton or schumacher win the world champioship they must be in the best car. Because now they're not in the best and they can't win.

I struggle to like Vettel because he's not charismatic or otherwise interesting. Although I thought he was brilliant when he was the meek, youngest driver to win an F1 race at Monza in the wet. So you could be right.

[ras el hanout]

But I think that's what makes vettel cool. He's a bit of a dweeb. But he seems like a nice guy. I don't understand the stick he gets for being in the best car. Hamilton is in the second best car and can't beat him. It's not like vettel is in the best car and not winning.

[Dudley]

it's inconsistent to say "yes, that kind of overtaking is fine in DTM but you're not allowed to do it in F1".

No it's not, because the consequences of rubbing wheels in an open wheeler at Monaco are likely VERY different than touching sides in a closed wheel car at the Lausitzring.

DTM, touring cars etc, aren't built like F1 cars, and that kind of half and half stuff is more common because it doesn't always end someone elses day. Comparing it to any open wheel series just isn't the same.

This is the key, compare GP2 and F1 say but the simple difference in consequence between touching wheels in an open wheeler at Monaco compared to a closed wheel car on the Lausitz roval means different standards are entirely appropriate.

Hell, Indycar tends to have much less of a sense of humour at Indy than at Barber and for much the same reason, you're 100mph slower and it's a concrete wall and not an entire field where you'll end up.

[wev]

Button is pure class with his strategies and calm demeanour. He's the thinking man's racing driver. I like that most about him.

I agree with this, when you hear his pit radio and he's almost telling his crew what the others are doing and what he should be doing, by contrast Hamilton is usually "wtf is going on!?". Don't get me wrong, I love Hamilton's passion (but despise his whining) and I love Button's smooth, calculated approach (but find the fact he hardly ever tries something daring to be dissapointing, but he does do it, look at the pass he performed on Kobayashi to win his Championship). In fact I don't dislike any of the drivers really, and that includes Schumacher, they all have elements I like and dislike (Schumachers never say never attitude, but thats also damaged by his lack of ability to act safely).

[ras el hanout]

I'll admit, finger waving and crazy frog renditions aside, I'm beginning to respect Vettel more and more as a driver. We were robbed of a truly great finale at Monaco, if that second safety car had not happened, who knows who would have won...

Vettel probably would've won.

[morcs]

The tyres would decide! Tyres last and Vettel holds off Alonso - Vettel win. Tyres don't last and Vettel has to pit - Alonso/Button win.

Button would have been set up to win if the first safety car hadn't happened a couple of laps after his second pit. Luck of the draw int it.

[Shimmyhill]

But I think that's what makes vettel cool. He's a bit of a dweeb. But he seems like a nice guy. I don't understand the stick he gets for being in the best car. Hamilton is in the second best car and can't beat him. It's not like vettel is in the best car and not winning.

The issue with Vettel is more that in the few times he has been further back or needed to 'race' he has been found out - i don't think he has that final killer instinct that your Hamilton, Alonso, Button etc have. Vettel is a brilliant one lap driver and from the front in a quicker car does a great job. Where the above gain their fans is they all have the ability to out drive the car, to over perform in slower cars and Vettel doesn't seem to have that other than one amazing display in the rain back in the Torro Rosso.

Doesn't make him a bad driver, he is clearly one of the best out there but it makes he harder to follow when you have the others out there!

[wev]

So the opinion is that Vettel is the equivalent of Rally's big name fizzy drink sponsored driver?

[Hawkeye]

i don't think he has that final killer instinct that your Hamilton...

Is it not he has too much of a Sunday Hamilton about him. Anytime I've seen him further back he seems to end up in a demolition derby!

[Sidewaysbob]

You know how you guys hate vettel because he is just in the best car. Well that means none of the others can win unless they're in the best car. So if Hamilton or schumacher win the world champioship they must be in the best car. Because now they're not in the best and they can't win.

To be fair, Schumacher did take a crappy Ferrari to the championship and Alonso beat a much better Ferrari in his Renault to take the championship. When Hamilton won his championship he got a lot of stick from the FIA (Taking the win in Spa away from him for instance) and you could argue that Vettels win last year was in a car that wasn't the most reliabel and Redbull made life difficult for thme selves.

Winning the championship is really about being in the best car. Only Ferrari and Schumacher were really dominante wins in far superiour cars. Luck and consistancy are what will win championships mostly. See Keke Rosberg in 1982 for example where he only won one race all year but was second and third alot.

Vettel is clearly in the best car at the moment and is making it look very easy. He's also out driving Webber by a country mile. The big question with Vettel is could he come from 10th on the grid to grab a win ? And a lot of people (me included) doubt this. Hamilton is agressive and far more exciting to watch because he can overtake even at Monaco

[GwiDan]

That was such an exciting race. Watched from the grandstand opposite the Renault garage this year, couldn't believe how close the top 3 were, and you could just tell that something was going to happen in the big group that eventually caused the red flag. Best Monaco gp in years, easily.