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Nick_L

By Nick_L
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morcs

morcs

Posted
Posted

Isn't the point more to make a greater difference between soft and hard?

I think last time both were lasting about the same number of laps, just the hard didn't grip as good.

Edit: Beaten to it

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wev

wev

Posted
Posted

Potentially interesting bit of info.

No teams will be using EBD this weekend. I'm not sure the reasons for this or even if its true, but if it is, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST! :omg:

Had to look that up, but I'm assuming that means potentially more wheel locks?

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morcs

morcs

Posted
Posted

Had to look that up, but I'm assuming that means potentially more wheel locks?

Na they don't have ABS :) (Electronic Brake Distribution)

Blown diffusers apparently! (Exhaust Blown Diffusers)

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reani_

reani_

Posted
Posted (edited)

Surely they can't just change the regulations during the season?!

I'd image it would need a rebuild of some parts of the car in some teams to meet these regulations and doing that just before a race? Edit: Oh, sorry it's from this weekend's GP :facepalm:

Is it another case of Ferrari saying "Bernie, Red Bull is too good. You have to do something!"

Bernie: "Okay" *grins*

Scratch all that - I've read another article and do understand now what exactly they want to ban. And now I understand what the post below means (sorry morcs!)

When the teams were putting the diffuser blown exhausts on the cars it was all good when the driver was on the accelerator, but when the driver was braking or just not on the accelerator, the cars got really unstable. To work around this the teams added an intermediate throttle which brings a reasonable exhaust airflow to the diffuser hence it's not that unstable anymore.

FIA want to ban that intermediate throttle. I'm not an engineer but that might still need some bigger changes - you can't just switch it off and send the driver out and deal with it!

Edited by Antenor
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mexos

mexos

Posted
Posted

Seriously though I'd love to believe Ferrari had a hand. The truth is more that this has been put in to reign Red Bull in.

Without action like this they are going to walk away with the title by the time we get to Singapore.

There is precedent for this sort of action. Anyone remember the Michelin scandal of 2006? (or was it 05?)

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Dom B

Dom B

Posted
Posted

They don't have to change anything other than make sure the throttle isn't open during braking.

It's not that simple though really - the main reason they 'keep the throttle open' (or at least, burn fuel in the exhaust manifold/pipes instead of the cylinder to keep gases flowing without driving the wheels) like this is to avoid a massive reduction in downforce as soon as they brake, which is when you really want your extra downforce, and when you certainly don't want a massive change in downforce de-stablising the car. It might turn out that they are better off just not routing the exhaust through the diffuser at all in order to keep things stable and predictable. Whether they can do that in time for this weekend remains to be seen...

A big part of Red Bull's huge qualifying advantage apparently came from a really extreme version of this concept that they had to turn down for the race otherwise they'd melt their exhausts and/or have to carry a ridiculous surplus of fuel. They will definitely take the biggest hit from this.

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myoozikk

myoozikk

Posted
Posted

a big part of it i personally think it to curb Red Bull. They run a huge rake compared the other teams to allow their front wing to be so close to the ground compared the other teams. Now off throttle their ass will be in air (literally) & they will lose a ton downforce at the rear.

oh and BTW...

I TOLD YOU SO :omg: :OMG: :omg: :OMG:

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mexos

mexos

Posted
Posted

FIA beware tho - RB have 2 teams in F1. If RBR suddenly become uncompetitive due to this DM could end up doing something rash to spite them (the FIA). Now that they have achieved one of their aims (winning the WC) why stick around to make up the numbers when you feel victimised. Stranger things have happened.

Make no bones about it, this could cost RB the championship. If the whole philosophy of the car is based round this then god know what will happen when they take it away. Could go either way. TBH the engineers probably don't know exactly what will happen - it's likely the car has never run without the system in place.

Barcelona is going to be fascinating.

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wev

wev

Posted
Posted

FIA beware tho - RB have 2 teams in F1. If RBR suddenly become uncompetitive due to this DM could end up doing something rash to spite them (the FIA). Now that they have achieved one of their aims (winning the WC) why stick around to make up the numbers when you feel victimised. Stranger things have happened.

Make no bones about it, this could cost RB the championship. If the whole philosophy of the car is based round this then god know what will happen when they take it away. Could go either way.

Barcelona is going to be fascinating.

We can but hope, its usually one of the dull races iirc?

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JPR

JPR

Posted
Posted

Make no bones about it, this could cost RB the championship. If the whole philosophy of the car is based round this then god know what will happen when they take it away. Could go either way. TBH the engineers probably don't know exactly what will happen - it's likely the car has never run without the system in place.

_48242730_newey.jpg

At the next teams meeting: -Evil cackle- look at you, running to the FIA trying to stop my superiority, see this napkin, it contains the plans to my next all conquering innovation, 5min is all it took to crush you again.

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marsh

marsh

Posted
Posted

The show must go on, if the driver doesn't die at the circuit it's game on. <_<

I can't name the top three after the race, I'm guessing it was the Cobbler, followed by Hill, and some random like Alesi in a ferrari?

I know I could look it up in an instant, but for some reason the result never did stick in my mind.

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morcs

morcs

Posted
Posted

It might turn out that they are better off just not routing the exhaust through the diffuser at all in order to keep things stable and predictable. Whether they can do that in time for this weekend remains to be seen...

True enough! For sure is going to be interesting

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Sidewaysbob

Sidewaysbob

Posted
Posted

Brapbrapbrap ... then it was all silence.

Right then fellow Petrol heads. This was going to be a long moan about how boring the Spanish GP normally is and how it’s usually won from pole ..... then the FIA decided that they hadn’t been throwing their weight around nearly enough this year and have banned cleaver throttle over run.

“What’s cleaver throttle over run”, you all cry. Well, children, let me enlighten you a little bet. All the teams have a very very cleaver exhaust systems that routes the very hot and very fast exhaust gasses though narrow slots on the trailing edge of their diffuser at the back of the car. This “pulls” the air though the wing and under the car due to the venturi effect. Low pressure behind the car caused by the fast moving exhaust gas increases the down force just a whole shed load.

So, getting your exhaust gas to come out in a nice thin line over a wide area in just the right spot gives you a load of down force which increases your grip and thus speeds in the corners where all the time is made in motorsport.

“But”, you say “what has that got to do with throttles?”. “Shhh” I say, “I’m just getting to that bit”. When you get to the corner, if you’re sensible, you brake. But that means you come off the power and your exhaust gasses stop, at just the point where you want a load of down force and grip to be there for you. What all the teams have been doing and Redbull with more success than most, is to keep the engine pumping out the fast moving gas whilst braking at the same time. If you listen to the cars as they brake into the fast corners you can hear a sort of staccato “brapbrapbrap” noise as the trick throttle pumps the engine really fast in micro burst.

During qualifying, Redbull in particular have been whacking up these throttle micro bursts to 100% open. If you do it too much you’ll cook the engine and the back of the car, so for the race they turn it down to I think 50%, still enough to keep them ahead of the pack, and not cook the engine. All very cleaver, if your engine can take it like Renault and Redbull, underhand dirty cheating if you’re McLaren and Ferrari.

They are all at it of course, but Italian teams that couldn’t get it to work properly have been having a quite word, Whilst British teams with British drivers have been muttering and asking pointed questions.

So in the spirit of being fair to all and making sure the Red Italian team gets a few more points they banned it. Well not banned it exactly. They’ve said this ...

“It is understood the directive to the teams tells them that, under braking, the throttle input can now be no larger than 10 per cent of its maximum. Some outfits had been gaining aerodynamic benefit from keeping the throttle flow at 100 per cent under braking.

To push this regulation change through, the FIA has deemed that throttle use will be allowed only for the purpose of increasing torque, not for 'aerodynamic performance'.

This effectively means that any team found to be using off-throttle blown diffusers could be in breach of the famous Article 3.15 of the technical regulations that outlaws moveable aerodynamic devices.”

Quote from autosport.

Just how the FIA plans to police this is anyone’s guess. Short of having real time telemetry from all of the cars on each and every lap being checked by a technician, who knows what the throttle response should be for any given part of the track and where the breaking point is when looking at a linear real time telemetry feed. I can’t see how they’ll know when a car is using 10% or 23.4% let alone 100%. Maybe they’ll have an FIA official standing at each corner listening for the BRAPBRAP.

So the upshot of all this is ... I have no idea who will win.

Because Pirelli have now decided it’s time to bring really hard, hard tires. Nitwits have been complaining that there is too much over taking and that in the good old days Fangio would race for 14 hours in his linen suit and not have to rely on having a far superior car than anyone else and it was all so much better and there was more Gin in the pink gins in the club house and other such bollocks. Clearly forgetting that only four years ago you only had to watch the first 5 laps to pretty much know who was going to win in two hours time. Plenty of time to wonder off and have a few stiff pink gins before catching the Ashes being won at Lords with Buffy and the lads.

Now you have to concentrate on the race there’s barely enough time for the waiter to take the drinks order before someone is over taking and heaven forbid entertaining the proles in the muddy spectator cattle pens. huuurumph !!!

Okay, so four stops per race is a bit much, maybe just three would be better and make it a little more of a race rather than a lottery. Pirelli are going to bring some hard tires which can last more than 12 laps before they turn to mush.

Will all of this make a difference to the result? It’s hard to tell. The rule change is going to affect everyone, some more than others. It might make qualifying a bit more of a spectacle too, with drivers not having to save fresh tires for the race.

But really Vettel hasn’t looked like being raced by anyone so far and I can’t see that changing anytime soon.

I think McLaren are going to struggle against Mercedes, whilst Ferrari looks like they got their finger out and are back on track.

But this is Barcelona, and it’s always a dull race remember.

All of those taking part in the Prediction game, don't forget to update before Friday now.

the links in the sig.

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