Sport The Formula 1 Thread

[gospvg]

Yawn Zzzzzz getting bored of this new Red Button format time to turn it off now.

[myoozikk]

Same

[Sidewaysbob]

It’s another Vettel benefit race as he cruises from the pole to the win. This time it was the Ferrari of Alonso that took the fight to the Redbull as the McLarens got bogged down fighting each other, whilst the Mercedes of Rosberg and Schumacher failed to deliver their qualifying potential.

The weekend had started with misty skies and a very wet track on Friday, most of the big boys didn’t bother to trouble the timing beam. They figured that driving around a wet track when the race was forecast to be bone dry was a waste of time and could prove costly. Just how costly that could be was demonstrated by Vettel who did go out and after a wobbly lap or two told the team “Hey chaps .. Watch this !!!“ Before promptly stuffing it into the wall and writing off the brand new updates the team had just finished bolting onto his car.

Everyone else looked on and though “ho ho, we might be in with a shout here” Vettels car was too badly damaged to take part in the second practice session and everyone really thought they really did had a chance then. Both of the Merc’s looked fast, but there were some glum faces at McLaren as things didn’t seem to be going their way.

Come Saturday and qualifying and the Redbull mechanics had rebuilt Vettels car, so well was it rebuilt in fact, that it just cruised past everyone else and took a pretty easy pole. The only surprise was that Rosberg was still up the sharp end of the grid in third. Maybe Schumacher had been right and the Merc has got better with three weeks rest. The McLaren’s were behind the two Redbulls as Webber had got his act together this race and was only just behind Vettel rather than the back of the grid. Hamilton saved some pride for Woking by being 4th ahead of Alonso who was smiling for a change and Button was sixth. Schumacher confirmed the potential of the Merc by getting between the Renaults of Petrov and Heidfeld in eight spot. Whilst Massa showed he was almost as good as he used to be in tenth. Could Rosberg push Vettel on Sunday? Were Ferrari back in the hunt at last ?

So on Sunday, Rosberg hoped he’d be able to jump Vettel when the lights went out and control the race from the front. What happened was Vettel engaged first gear and shot off into the distance followed by Webber and Alonso. And that was the race for the win over with. No one got close to Vettel for the rest of the day and the only time the camera focused on the young German was at the end of the race to see him waving his bloody finger around again. This is starting to get annoying now.

This in now three wins in four races for Vettel and he just looks like he can turn it on when he needs it. Webber and Alonso were nowhere near him all day and he didn’t make the mistake of thinking he could get away with a 3 stop race this time around. When Webber and Alonso stopped with 11 laps to go for some soft tires, Vettel came in too and covered that. Can he over take anyone .... well there is no one for him to overtake at the moment, the car is reliable, KERS or no KERS balls out faster than anyone else. Ho hum, Despite the finger waving I’m kind or warming to him, so far he hasn’t arsed around and given it all the “big I am” mouth of the like of Schumacher in his prime. I’m not going to say he’s humble or anything, but he always thanks the team and says it’s them, if not more than him. As an engineer, I like that.

Anyway where was I .. Oh yeah Vettel won again.

Webber starts second and finished second. A late pit stop for the soft rubber, gives him the fastest lap and allowed him to mug Alonso in the process. Again it demonstrates that the Redbull is the class of the field even in the grumpy Australians hands. He wasn’t close to taking the fight to Vettel but he did do what his contract tells him to do.

Alonso had a happy weekend for a change and gets Ferraris first podium of the season in 3rd. About bloody time! The new wings did their job and Alonso driving the wheels of the car did the rest. Massa who loves this track couldn’t make it into the top 10 at the end, okay he had a poor pit stop with a clutch that wouldn’t engage so the wheels were spinning as the mechanics tried to give him new tires. But the point is, Massa wasn’t fighting for a podium here and that must be the bench mark of the car, it’s Alonso that made the difference and the reason you can never count him out. With his home race in Spain next he’ll want to keep the ball rolling and fight for the win.

Hamilton also has bad stop with a sticky wheel nut holding him up on his third stop and was a long way back in 4th. He got stuck behind Button at the start of the race and cooked his tires in 11 laps trying to get past. Once he’d done that he was on the back foot for the rest of the race. The sticky wheel nut robbed us of a three way fight for second spot, but in reality the McLaren wasn’t on the pace here and was lucky the Mercs were rubbish when loaded with fuel. The new aero bits can’t come soon enough if Ferrari has got their act together.

Rosberg should have got more out of this but 5th was all he gets. The car was fast when there was no fuel in it, but off the line and it looked like it was missing a gear or two. Once the flappy wings got switched on after 2 laps, it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Schumacher who ended up in 12th was no better and Brawn confirmed after the race that they need to work some on the race set up. With the tires the way they are, just being in the top ten look’s to be good enough, they don’t need to be trying to get a car to pole. Rosberg’s got it in him, he just need the car to catch up.

Button gets 6th after trying to do the race on three stops. Even the famed ‘smoothest driver on the track’ couldn’t get this to work for him and he was passed by Hamilton and Rosberg at the end of the race. If he wants a tilt at the title this year he needs to get his finger out and stop relying on being smooth. Grow a pair Jenson and start ragging it lad.

Heidfeld turned up once to wave a fist at Petrov and spent the rest of the time not being as interesting as anyone else on his way to 7th. Slowly slowly catchy monkey and all that guff, I think we’ll be seeing the Renaults back here from now on as the other teams get their development programs in gear for the European season. Renault has lots of work to do.

Petrov in 8th demonstrated to Schumacher that the German should call it a day and retire with some dignity left intact. Petrov drove the nuts of the Renault and the front wing of the Mercedes and should have got more for his efforts. That he didn’t is a testament of the car not him. I like the Russian, he’s fun.

9th for Buemi, nope, I have no idea either and he gets the “did he take part in the race?”, award this time out.

Finally and unfortunately we didn’t see it, but Kobayashi come from the back of the grid, after the engine died on his first qualifying lap, to take a very well deserved 10th. As a comparison, Perez, who was 14th had the fastest lap for a long time and would have been in the top 10 too if he hadn’t lost a front wing at the start of the race. The Sauber is turning out to be a fast little car and Koby is an exciting driver with plenty of potential, imagine what he could do in say a Mercedes for instance.. (Perez is still only a legend in his own lunch time as far as I’m concerned).

The race for the chance to be crowned the most rubbish driver goes to Liuzzi in the HRT, who didn’t really have much competition this week. Every time we saw him, he was either off line being past or off the circuit being past. He was five laps behind Vettel and 2 laps behind his equally rubbish team mate Karthikeyan who has an impossible long name that’s difficult to spell even stone cold sober. This week’s amusing HRT quote comes from Liuzzi who says “Overall this has been a positive weekend up until qualifying” that’s the spirit lad.

So there you have it. The first 3 rounds didn’t lie and Redbull have a championship winning car, the driver to do and lady luck belting out Deutschland Uber alles from the top of the hospitality bus as embarrassed staff try to talk her down and get the bottle of champagne out of her hands.

Can anyone stop them .. who knows? She’s a game old lass and she’s having a grand old time.

Meanwhile this weeks big winner is the Danster with 25 points well done to you.

whilst Andy Daniell will once again be helping to clean up after Lady luck. Get the bucket out lad i think she's going to blow chunks again .....

Danster,25

kiroquai,22

Charlie Bowdidge,21

Alastair 'Agent L' G,20

Chris Bush,20

Blu3Flame,20

Charles,19

Duane Weatherall,19

MrPogo,18

Matt O'Brien,18

James Roberts,18

Oliver,17

Steve Allen,16

Neil Carter,15

Bradlay Law,15

Joffy Chinnock,14

Stephen Rose,14

Petey Stevens,13

Tomox,13

Rattlehead,13

Matthew Leach,12

Captain LeChuck,12

Andy Daniell,9

[marsh]

“Overall this has been a positive weekend up until qualifying”

Did he really say that?

I'd fire him out of last years chasis if they hadn't sold it to a rag and bone man to pay the bills.

[SharkyOB]

P-3000s on my car

Do they fall off a cliff after 100km?

[Cheeko]

I do think the DRS is doing a great job, without it everyone could easily have gotten bunched up behind Rosberg until the first round of pitstops and instead it allows people to just get on with racing instead. I do find it a bit strange when people moan that it's too easy to pass, surely if that was the case you'd just repeatedly see people that have just been overtaken with DRS being retaken on the following lap but you don't because it just allows a faster car to get to where it should be. Admittedly there were a few instances in this race where it was too effective but when cars are closely matched like Lewis and Button it's not so straight forward.

[myoozikk]

erm yeah i've lost the link & not updated my predictions at all.

[Velse]

Managed to avoid the result all day and finally watch the race at 11 last night!

I'm in two minds really. I enjoyed the Ham/Button fight at the start, Kobayashi, Webber/Alonso. And to read about it it certainly was action packed. So I should have enjoyed it, right? I can't decide. I feel a little deflated.

[Sidewaysbob]

There's a link I'm my signature. But don't worry, somebody has to come last

[myoozikk]

updated for what it's worth.

[mexos]

At the Everyman waiting for Senna to start. Need a good question to ask the director in the Q&A! My minds gone blank.

[The Bag]

woo, tickets for the bafta screening of Senna obtained. Cannot wait, so excited!

[morcs]

Y'All should go watch TT3D

I absolutely loved it, impossible not to like Guy Martin or be impressed by the ludicrous speed/danger of the TT

[MrPogo]

DRS is good, but I think they might have gone a bit far with the tyre fall off. There are so many pit stops that it doesn't feel like the cars are really racing each other, more like it's all about strategy and tyre management. Sure, they're passing each other a lot, but half the time they're getting swapped around again in the pits a couple of laps later.

[SharkyOB]

Pirelli have actually produced a new hard compound that should last longer than the current set of hard tyres.

That'll be good and should give the teams more options. At the moment it seems the hard tyre gives slower lap times but is no more durable.

[dayte]

The teams are still obligated to use both tyre compounds in the race aren't they? It would be better if this was lifted, meaning more variety by allowing drivers to do 2 stopping on all hards or 4 stopping on all softs.

[morcs]

Yep stick with both, it's too difficult for the tyre manufacturer to produce two compounds that can compete with each other at different circuits in different conditions. That is, one compound will almost always be a better option than the other and we'd undo the awesomeness that we have now.

[Shimmyhill]

Y'All should go watch TT3D

I absolutely loved it, impossible not to like Guy Martin or be impressed by the ludicrous speed/danger of the TT

Aye, defi seeing this - The missus is gonna have a good run of films with this and Senna

[SharkyOB]

The teams are still obligated to use both tyre compounds in the race aren't they? It would be better if this was lifted, meaning more variety by allowing drivers to do 2 stopping on all hards or 4 stopping on all softs.

At the moment all that would happen is that everyone would use the soft.

[roskelld]

Interesting article and subsequent discussion on James Allen's website.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/05/why-the-turkish-gp-turned-out-as-it-did-strategy-analysis/

The Turkish Grand Prix featured 82 pit stops, a new record for Formula 1 and some spectacular overtaking moves. It was quite a confusing race, which requires some decoding and there are some clear trends emerging which will have a big effect on the way the races happen from now on.

It was also another race which was all about strategy; not just in terms of pit stops on race day, but further back than that, it was also about planning a strategy for the whole weekend and particularly for qualifying.

After four races with new rules and new tyres, we are seeing some clear patterns which strategists are building into their plans. For a start, the DRS wing aiding overtakes means that it is possible to go for what the computer model tells you is the optimum strategy for your car’s pace, because you know that you can overtake, you won’t have your race completely ruined, as Alonso’s was by Petrov in Abu Dhabi last year, for example.

However we are also seeing that being stuck in traffic can still lose you vital time, as it did for Jenson Button on Sunday, and this is harmful to anyone trying to get away with making one less stop than the opposition.

We have also learned that having even one set of new soft tyres for the race makes a vital difference, as much as 5 to 6 seconds over the course of a typical stint.

Another lesson is that it is preferable now to slant thinking very much towards the race and not qualifying. It’s not just about saving a set of tyres, it’s also about setting the car up for the race and prioritising that above all else.

With the Pirelli tyres the ideal balance for qualifying and race are far apart. In the past it was generally a case of add a bit more front wing for qualifying and take it out at the first stop in the race. Where you qualified was often where you finished.

Now it is about setting the car up to preserve the tyres, which isn’t compatible with single lap performance. So you are looking to preserve the tyres, by dealing with the limitations. In China the tyres were front limited, in Turkey they were rear limited.

Although both Ferrari prioritised a race balance, they failed to save a set of soft tyres from qualifying, which was very odd, especially after Hamilton won the race in China using that tactic. So the Alonso strategy was right, but not perfect. Massa even used up a set of new soft tyres in Q1, when there was no risk of dropping out because Kobayashi had stopped. No-one in the pit lane can understand how that mistake was made.

Teams are also still finding surprises on race day, despite gathering tyre data on Fridays. In China the surprise was that the wear on the hard tyre in the final stint was bad because the track hadn’t rubbered in. In Turkey the traack did rubber in and the surprise was that the lap time difference between the soft and hard was only 3/10ths of a second, much less than at any race so far and less than the 1 second/lap it looked like on Friday.

Another point to make is that, even if they have a margin, some drivers are making a final stop for new tyres to cover themselves should a safety car be deployed in the closing laps. Vettel did it with his fourth stop, which wasn’t really needed, but if there had been a safety car he would have been a sitting duck at the restart.

Why were there so many pit stops in Turkey?

There are a number of reasons for this. Mainly it is because the tyre degradation was severe. The track temperatures were higher on Sunday than during practice and tyres didn’t last as long as expected. Also the pit lane in Turkey is relatively short and so you lose less time (just 16 secs) making a stop there in comparison with other tracks. Also the high peak loadings on the tyres through Turn 8, as much as 1,000 kilos, take their toll on tyres.

Why planning to stop four times was the winning strategy

Many teams set out to stop three times, but told their drivers in the early laps of the race that they were moving to “Plan B”, which meant four stops. The tyre degradation was huge and that was clear from five laps into the race. It was at this point that many teams switched to four and those who didn’t (Button, Williams drivers) lost out.

Pre-race simulations said that a three stop strategy would lead a four stop by eight seconds after the fourth stop. But then the four stopper overtakes the three stopper as his tyres are a second a lap faster.

So teams who set out on Friday to run the race as a four stop strategy did well on Sunday. Ferrari were a case in point with Alonso, who set the car up to be optimised for four stops. He also benefited from a good start, which put him clear of the squabbles over position. We’ve learned that intense battles speed up tyre degradation.

Why didn’t Jenson Button make three stops work?

The limitation for trying to do three stops in Turkey was the front right tyre, which is the one that is punished most by Turn 8. Button found that by running longer stints, he developed understeer in all the left hand corners and that meant he couldn’t defend.

Button was racing against Rosberg and Hamilton, both of whom stopped four times. His goal was to do one less stop than them and to have enough of a margin over them when they came out from their fourth stop (around lap 46) for them not to be able to catch him in the 12 remaining laps, despite their newer tyres. His strategy began to unravel on his third stint, when he was on his new soft tyres. This was the moment to build a cushion, particularly as Rosberg was on hard tyres at this time. But on lap 30 Button got held up by Massa. Button’s laps 30 to 39 should have been in the 1m 31s and 32s, instead they were in the 1m 33s.

This meant that when Hamilton and Rosberg came out from their fourth stops Rosberg was only 8 seconds behind and Hamilton two. On tyres that were older and therefore a second a lap slower, Button was a sitting duck.

Similarly Buemi did well to make his tyres on a three stopper last so that he was in seventh place with four laps to go. But the two Renaults on fresher tyres went past him at the end and he wound up 9th, which is still a good result from 16th on the grid. So again we see midfield cars such as Toro Rosso and Sauber, which are gentle on their tyres, can run one less stop than rivals and get into the points.

Kobayashi copies Webber’s China strategy

Kamui Kobayashi was his usual ebullient self on Sunday, making some spectacular overtakes and working his way up from the back of the grid to finish 10th and claim a point. He did this by running on new tyres all race and by getting the hard tyre out of the way at the start, when his progress was limited anyway by traffic. He was helped by the hard tyre being faster than expected.

Kobayashi’s race again goes to show how much progress you can make if you run as much as possible on new tyres. It is likely to encourage midfield teams to consider throwing qualifying in order to have new tyres for the race.

Photos: Red Bull, McLaren

* The UBS Strategy Briefing is created by James Allen with input from strategists from several of the leading F1 teams

Below is the race history graph.

[JohnC]

Grand Prix and Le Mans are both getting US Blu-ray releases (from Warner Bros and Paramount respectively, so should both be region free) on 24 May. Grand Prix was recommended recently here, so I'm getting that. Is Le Mans worth a punt too?

[Sidewaysbob]

It's fantastic if you are a lover of Le Mans and want to see 917s belting down the Mulsanne. That alone is worth the price of the film for me. The acting is pretty much superfluous to the film, it's not about the people it's about the cars. In fact watch the film and skip the bits with the actors they suck really really badly. The only thing to do when the cars aren't there is play spot the 70's motor racing legend. From Bell, Ickx, Redman, i think Joe Siffert is there and Graham Hill pops up.

Get the film and watch the first laps of the race with the surround sound turned up to 11. Then read A french kiss with death which is the account of McQueen making the film and mostly pissing the money away having a laugh driving cars fast.

[JohnC]

Pre-ordered then

[marsh]

And then buy Love the Beast.

We need more race obsessed petrol heads funding their own appreciation of motorsport.

[JohnC]

And then buy Love the Beast.

We need more race obsessed petrol heads funding their own appreciation of motorsport.

Ooh, only £2.99 on Amazon. And just about sold out. *yoink*

[SeanR]

and then get Viva Knievel!

[Sidewaysbob]

"Love the beast" is pure aceness. I was in tears at the end He didn't even care about his fat mate

[Dudley]

Grand Prix and Le Mans are both getting US Blu-ray releases (from Warner Bros and Paramount respectively, so should both be region free) on 24 May. Grand Prix was recommended recently here, so I'm getting that. Is Le Mans worth a punt too?

Fuck yes.

There's actually no dialogue for the first 35 minutes of the film. I watched it without knowing this. I didn't notice.

[McSpeed]

http://youtu.be/bw7mXWt68S4

[reani_]

A1-Ring