Sport The Formula 1 Thread

[gospvg]

Just finished watching Senna. I decided to go for the full fat version with all the talking heads after all. To say the english subtitles were poor would be an understatement, but they were functional. But fucking hell, I haven't been this emotional at the end of a film since watching The Green Mile years ago.

Similar to Wev, once it hit Imola at '94 a feeling of dread came over me, and that in-car footage ... I actually felt my heart rate rise as the lap progressed. However, everything before that was absolutely enthralling. I will say, Prost faired better in it than I thought he would; it was Balestre who was painted as the villain for me, and rightly so.

As for the film as a piece on its own, yeah, get rid of most of the talking head parts, add in proper english subtitles where required, and this is an absolute fucking must-have for any F1 fan. I'll be buying the blu-ray of this, and it'll also be a day-one purchase on whatever new-fangled formats come out in the future.

Can't wait to watch it, is it a straight to dvd release for UK or limited cinema release?

[mexos]

But it's Newey really. He'd be a fool to pass up one of those cars.

I disagree, now would be a bad time for him to move. F1 seems to move in cycles. Red Bull is enjoying the sunshine right now yes, but keeping that momentum is hard over a number of seasons. He could very well end up joining them just as they start to decline. Newey has to be convinced every year or so to continue - he keeps trying to quit. I don't see him being there for the long term at all and when he goes RB will do well to keep winning through the transition.

Personally I think his best chance is to stick with Mclaren right now.

[SeanR]

word on the street course: might end up with just 16 races, because Abu Dhabi(poss. political unrest), India (not ready), and Japan (obv.) are all in doubt, according to my mates source in Japan.

[dayte]

Didn't your source also say that Korea was absolutely not going to happen last year?

[myoozikk]

Come 2013 the rules change again & everyone starts again. Lewis would be a fool to leave Mclaren & i can't see it happening. Yes there is the lure of Newey, but on the flip side Mclaren has looked after him since he was a kid.

I see all this as a result of Simon Fuller as his manager. Column inches about Lewis, & angling himself in a strong negotiation position with Mclaren come contract renewal time.

[SeanR]

Didn't your source also say that Korea was absolutely not going to happen last year?

Yeah. facepalm.gif

mind you, we also thought the commonwealth games in india wouldn't go ahead because the facilities were not ready.

[Sidewaysbob]

So then, a short hop and a skip and we’re in the hot and sweaty Malaysia for round two of the Formula 1 world championship.

Everyone, and I mean every single one of the teams is talking up their Malaysian GP this weekend. Without exception, from HRT saying they’ve got the car and it’s all fixed and it’s going to blow Virgin out of the park. To Redbull saying they’re going to have a working KERS unit this time, which is going to be super ace.

How many of these press releases have that faint smell of the farm yard about them I don’t know.

The Redbull obviously has the speed and, crucially for them, it’s seems reliable this year. If they have a KERS to fit for this race then they’re going to be nigh on unbeatable here. Malaysia has a bunch of high speed corners and straights which required good mechanical and aero grip coupled with a nice big KERS boost out of the slow corners.

If you can boast out of the slow stuff then you can gear the car to run at a higher speed because it’s going to get there, rather than have to build up to a terminal velocity in a fixed distance. Basically, If you going faster earlier you have an advantage at the end of the straight. Add on a flappy rear wing and no matter how great you were in Australia, the Virgin can catch you.

So if Redbull are saying they have a super ace KERS unit waiting to be used at Malaysia the others need to be worried.

McLaren are now trying to dampen down too much enthusiasm for their car, they’re talking about a “a good baseline to work with” and other such smoke and mirrors. I think even they were surprised to be the best of the rest last time out and I see no reason to expect them to be too off the pace this time out.

Ferrari are walking around telling everyone that although they don’t really know why the car wasn’t fast enough come Sunday, they’re sure it was just “one of those things” and “Alonso will be at the front this time out … oh yeah and what’s name…. thingy.. you know the other one .. Messa yeah Mease will have good race this time, sure thing”.

As Massa demonstrated in Australia, the Ferrari has the straight line speed to keep up with the likes of McLaren and Redbull. It was just the tight twisty stuff that slowed them done. So I think Alonso and Hamilton will be fighting it out to take the battle to Vettel. Webber and Massa will be the ones looking for an excuse.

Mercedes are in a certain amount of trouble, the car was nowhere near fast enough last time out and it didn’t improve during the race. Mickey was a long way behind Nico for the whole event and with only enough time to get the car to the next race I doubt things will go any better here.

Meanwhile on the up Renault have a driver that was starting to believe all the bad press he was getting. Now he’s walking around like a puppy dog that’s managed to not take a dump in the kitchen but made it all the way to the garden. You could practically see his tail wagging as he was interviewed after the race. This place is more about being a proper racing driver so let’s see if he can make it to the garden two weeks running.

Also worth keeping an eye on are Sauber. They lost points because someone forgot the measure the wing radius before it left the factory, an elementary mistake and one that cost them a lot of money. Both cars where in the top ten and not because the likes of Massa and Mickey made such a pigs ear of it, they were up there on their own merits and doing a good job. I think they’re the new midfield team to beat. As William and Force India struggle, Sauber are going to pick up the points.

Down the tail of the field Virgin have been making desperate “no really, the car is fine, it’ll get to the end don’t you worry” noises. Still fooling no one of course. Lotus have been shocked to discover that they are not in fact up with the Torro Rosso’s and force India’s. But are in fact still there with the Virgin and HRT when it appears. The sooner they fire Trulli and get a descent driver in the better.

HRT are saying they’re going to be there and ready to race, everyone else very much doubts that will be the case.

At the moment is looking like it’s going to be wet, and when it rains in Malaysia, it really rains. A wet race and it doesn’t matter how super ace your car is, it’s now a lottery. As Webber demonstrated in Korea last year.

A wet race also means we get to see what Pirelli have got in the way of a wet tire, they’re already predicting four stops from some of the runners. So we could see another last minute fastest lap from a late stopper.

[marsh]

Simon Fuller.

Ban request.

[Dudley]

So it turns out the book about Bernie is mostly complete bollocks, there's a shock.

[Pete]

Yes to rain please.

[Sidewaysbob]

He's mentioned before that Mika is the only driver he ever really rated. Considering everyone else to either have a better car or he had a rubbish car.

[Dudley]

Yeah, he's always been a huge fan of Mika.

[marsh]

My memories of the Schumacher ferrari years are vague at best, bar being in copse corner when Hakkinen went round the outside of him, and him nerfing Villenueve off the track.

It also seems like a massive lifetime ago, I remain to this day absolutely cast iron certain that he'd never had bagged 7 titles if Senna hadn't perished.

[Sidewaysbob]

Oh I think he would have. He was more ruthless and focused than Senna, the next evolution of what was required to be champion. Willing to drive anyone off the road and win at all coats. He had talent and the team was built around him. Williams would never have given Senna the total commitment that he needed. Frank never believed that the driver was more important than the car.

Maybe if Senna had lived and gone to ferrari it would have been different. But I think the pool of talent that mickey built at benetton then took to ferrari was better than the talent of Senna alone.

[dayte]

I hated how Schumey was always a cunt to Damon Hill, who always looked like he was about to cry after their little conversations together.

[Sidewaysbob]

Mickey was always in control and utterly passionless. Where as Hill wore his heart on his sleeve and had his fathers memory to live up too.

Whenever Mickey punted Hill off the circuit he'd always shrug and say "well you know, I have to win", Hill would always throw his arms in the arm and go on about how thorouhly Unbritish it all was.

Hill wouldn't have won his champinship if Senna had lived.

[marsh]

Man, it really sucks to be talking about Ayrton and all these vast unknowns. I couldn't stand the bloke in the day, but that year at Mclaren in 93, you just got your head round what the guy was capable of, Prost had it on a silver spoon that year, and come round six Senna was still leading the championship and would go on to be runner up.

Unthinkable at the start of the year. I think he would have found himself drawn back to Mclaren in the remainder of his years in the sport. It's tragic, but I can't really think he would have survived without racing of some description. There aren't any other drivers that come close to that level of spirtuality at present other than possibly Lewis.

[Sidewaysbob]

The rise of ferrari was all down to Todt, Brawn, Byrne and Schamacher being given unlimited funds by montizemalo.

I personal don't think that what happened would have happens without one of those elements. When Byrne left the engine department, Alonso won the championship for example.

[Dudley]

My memories of the Schumacher ferrari years are vague at best, bar being in copse corner when Hakkinen went round the outside of him, and him nerfing Villenueve off the track.

It also seems like a massive lifetime ago, I remain to this day absolutely cast iron certain that he'd never had bagged 7 titles if Senna hadn't perished.

I tend to think Senna would probably have won 1994 then retired to be honest but we'll never know. I'm not even sure he'd have won 1994 tbh, with Senna alive the FIA wouldn't have spent the year doing everything they could to screw Michael over.

[makkuwata]

The what if game is pointless. If Senna had lived what's to say Ratzenberger's death would have been enough to bring about the massive improvements to safety. Schumacher might have had a fatal crash in '95 for all we know.

[Shimmyhill]

Senna would have on in '94, he was going to beat Schumacher in a a poor williams that fateful day - remember halfway through that season the Williams was a much better car than the Benneton (Hill destroyed Schumacher at a few races almost lapping him at one as i recall) and the same next year but Williams didnt have the drivers. Had Senna lived he would have won 94, 95, 96 & 97 if he stayed with Williams or not retired having won in 94.

But yes pointless even talking about it but Marsh was bang on, Schumacher would not have won 7 titles.

[Guest]

My girlfriend has been acting very proud of what she was getting me for my birthday this year for quite some time, and finally let it out of the bag with just two days to go.

6 days in Nice, with tickets to Monaco qualifying and the race. :OMG:

Trying to beat me for going miles over budget last year in getting her an iPad. We've agreed to more sensible gifts next time round.

This was how she broke the news...

Amazing scenes.

What?

Mate, you've got an amazing girlfriend.

[Dudley]

Senna would have on in '94, he was going to beat Schumacher in a a poor williams that fateful day - remember halfway through that season the Williams was a much better car than the Benneton (Hill destroyed Schumacher at a few races almost lapping him at one as i recall) and the same next year but Williams didnt have the drivers. Had Senna lived he would have won 94, 95, 96 & 97 if he stayed with Williams or not retired having won in 94.

But yes pointless even talking about it but Marsh was bang on, Schumacher would not have won 7 titles.

Thing is, the speed of the Williams late in 1994 was due to a mammoth effort to bring in a B spec car. With Senna ok would there have been the impetus to do so, even if they were fighting for the championship. We simply don't know.

[makkuwata]

What?

Mate, you've got an amazing girlfriend.

Suffice it to say 'girlfriend' is a necessary understatement.

Putting off making things official until we're homeowners and there's financial security. I suppose stunts like this doesn't help!

[Dudley]

Dudley, I really don't think you understand Senna, at all. With Senna still alive, he would have been the impetus to do so. The guy was a walking telemetry computer; he could drive a lap, pull in the pits and say, "The right rear needs an extra lb of pressure." The engineers would check, and find he was bang on. Senna would have pushed and pushed and pushed for the development of the car.

And it may or may not have worked. He didn't magically transform the 1992 McLaren for example.

[marsh]

Not much you can do when it would have required a whole new car, hadn't they gone for the V12 honda which was neither quick and also exceptionally heavy? He also wasn't massively committed to what was going on at the time if I recall correctly.

And this was in the way:

I reckon that could run this weekend and spank every car out of sight.

[marsh]

Prost was such a wuss, his clause for 93 that said Senna couldn't sign was the reason he wouldn't defend the title in 94. He basically pussied out of it, maybe he thought Senna really was nuts enough to kill the pair of them, but on paper it reads like he threw his toys out of his pram and walked away rather than go head to head with Ayrton.

[McSpeed]

Man, all this talk about "had Senna lived" reminds me of a column in a Dutch racing magazine, about 15 years ago. I need to dig that up, really curious what they thought would happen just a few years after the accident.

And also REALLY want to see the film but I'll wait for at least a proper 'release' 'out there'. And still hoping for it to hit the theatres in the Netherlands sometime soon

[kiroquai]

Marsh, he admitted that that's exactly what he did. He told Williams, "Ok, you want Senna? Have him. But I'm retiring with you paying me for the second year of my contract."

That led to this amazing press conference after the 1992 Portuguese Grand Prix - amusing to see Mansell (who'd fallen out with Prost in 1990 at Ferrari and in 1992 over the Williams contract saga) patting Senna on the back at the end .

(Interesting bits start around the 3.15 mark)

[Orgun]

That led to this amazing press conference after the 1992 Portuguese Grand Prix - amusing to see Mansell (who'd fallen out with Prost in 1990 at Ferrari and in 1992 over the Williams contract saga) patting Senna on the back at the end .

(Interesting bits start around the 3.15 mark)

That was excellent!