Sport The Formula 1 Thread

[JPR]

The team have the weather data, the simulations, the bigger picture of what's going on in the race.

Imagine what a pillock Button would have looked if he damaged the car in that off on the slicks.

I think a driver looking up at the sky would give more reliable weather data than the teams have most of the time. It just seems that Hamilton is totally reliant on the team, China 07 came to mind yesterday. If he was convinced his tyres were fine and he didn't need to pit why not say so, Alonso or Schumacher would have or they would be part of the decision making, not just let the team dictate to them.

[marsh]

The team have the weather data, the simulations, the bigger picture of what's going on in the race.

Imagine what a pillock Button would have looked if he damaged the car in that off on the slicks.

But they're not in the car. Was Hamilton being held up? was the pit stop for better track position? personally I think Hamilton was ragging the arse off that car yesterday and I would have been very, very suprised if his tyres would have lasted a whole race. The Ferraris were struggling like hell towards the end, massa looked like he was going to bin it every time he went through the last turn, Alonso is to blame for that accident in my book. Webber's just a mug for driving like a cowboy, Alonso was desperately trying to defend a corner to a car which was miles faster than his own, which initiated the accident in the first place.

[morcs]

I think the team should make the decision, but that doesn't mean they can't get information from the driver still.

Obviously in Button's case there wasn't time to get his opinion and weigh up the choices so he made the call.

In Hamilton's case they had plenty of time so it was logical to let the team work it out given Hamilton's feedback as well as all the other data they had. Hamilton won't have known the positions of everyone else, whether their teams were preparing tyres, how other runners times were being affected by tyre degradation and all the rest of it. It made perfect sense for him to rely on the team to make the decision.

[reani_]

Alonso is to blame for that accident in my book.

How can you blame Alonso for that? He defended his line - Lewis went on the outside and that's it.

Also, it wasn't a bad decision to get Hamiltion in the pit, he was stuck behind Kubica anyway. I guess the team decided to bring him in and then eventually pass Kubica on new tyres. I just didn't work out... Hamilton should not said that on team radio (I don't know who made the decision to broadcast it live?!) That's not good team spirit, but he's not really a team player anyway as he has shown in the past...

Edit: Correction: He is a team player when it suits him

[morcs]

(I don't know who made the decision to broadcast it live?!)

They have to make all transmissions public (as of last year, which is how they knew McLaren lied in the previous Oz race)

[Sidewaysbob]

I'd rather watch a driver getting pissed off with a team because he lost second place, rather than a driver cruising around picking up points.

[marsh]

Alonso is off line going into that corner and then decides he wants to be on the correct line, braking stupidly late and giving Hamilton the option of driving into him or throwing on the anchors. Fortunately, webber is busy trying to take them both out, which detracts you from what's going on.

Alonso is lucky to get away with that, if you watch him drive off you can see him moving twice into the next corner against Nico, which in the rules is clearly not allowed. If anything Webber has done the Hamster a favour by knocking him off, he was a sniff away from the back of his car as it was.

[myoozikk]

I'd rather watch a driver getting pissed off with a team because he lost second place, rather than a driver cruising around picking up points.

Totally. As i say far too often, the most exciting driver to watch by far. God forbid we had a grid of Trulli's

[Sidewaysbob]

that horror doesn't bear thinking about ....

[myoozikk]

The Horror, The Horror...

[morcs]

I think Alonso was fine there (sorry Marsh I'm not disagreeing with you on purpose!), you're allowed to take all of the track width on exit (and risk the outside driver swapping underneath you). He did lock a wheel up though - probably because of the camber of the street circuit lifting that side of the car.

[marsh]

That's cool, my point of view is slightly clouded cause I think he's as big a cheat as Schumacher. You can often look at a scenario and think 'that's going to end in tears' which is exactly what happened there.

Stop moaning about Trulli, he's exactly where he desreves to be, right at the back of the grid staying well out of the way from anyone with any pace.

I wonder if HRT had a bit of a party on the back of that finish?

[Sidewaysbob]

Either Hamilton was going to collect Alonso, or webber was going to collect them all. It's a do or die move from hamilton and i suspect that if Webber hadn't hit him, the ozzy would have been on the insided, probably level with Alonso. Hamilton is on the outrside of the corner, going too fast to make the corner with a locked up ferrari next to him, i imagine he hoped Alonso would brake earlier becuase his tires were shot. Fogetting that Alonso would never let Hamilton pass, never in a million years.

It's a racing incident i suppose and the stewards are right. Webber should have profited form the whole thing, instead fucks up to general fore head slapping and much "you ozzy twat". Hamilton was getting frustrated and made a bit of a desperate move against a driver that was never going to give up the corner. Against Nico or Massa it would have been fine. But Alonso and Hamilton have too much history.

[reani_]

I'd rather watch a driver getting pissed off with a team because he lost second place, rather than a driver cruising around picking up points.

I do agree, but doing that on the team radio? Should really stay team internal... at least that's what I think.

Edit: When do we have to get up for the qualifying/race in Malaysia?

[marsh]

There's a great conclusion on the planet f1 website about yesterday's race. Button and Whitmarsh for a big love in?

[morcs]

I dunno I think Hamilton might have been on for a cross-under pass. Basically Alonso has to go out wide because he braked late, meaning Hamilton could cross up the back of him and come through on the inside.

Problem is the inside was full of Webber

[Dudley]

Lewis really wasn't at fault for his position in the race though. If the team hadn't ordered him in he might well have beaten Button.

If he'd qualified 3rd-5th like he should have done he'd have been far enough ahead the whole discussion would never have happened. Wouldn't have been anywhere near Webber either.

The problem is not that it did, the problem is that he was a whiny bitch. It'd be like McLaren having said after Saturday "Yeah, we did a great job but Lewis was shit today".

I think Lewis is a massively, better quicker driver than Button. This weekend he blew it by putting himself in a position to have it blown for him and then whined like a child.

[morcs]

Can't disagree with that, dunno why Hamilton was so slow in quali, nor does he by the sounds of it.

[metallicfrodo]

I think Lewis is a massively, better quicker driver than Button. This weekend he blew it by putting himself in a position to have it blown for him and then whined like a child.

I'd argue that he'd already made up for his mistake in quali by driving the arse off the car and getting up behind Kubica before the 2nd stop. By the time the team decided to bring him in for tires he was in a great position.

My feeling is that the team assumed Massa et al would also stop for tires (as redbull did with Webber) which turned out to be wrong.

Hell, Hamilton raced his heart out yesterday and in the heat of the moment had a bitch at his team over the radio when he was obviously getting annoyed being stuck behind Alonso, I don't really see a problem with that. Possibly he needed to calm down a bit after the race but I would imagine that at that point, having also been punted up the backside by Webber he was probably still fuming. To be fair it's that kind of passion and desire to win we need to see more of in the sport.

[Monbee]

It's also hardly the first time a driver has had a whinge over the radio, is it?

[myoozikk]

It's also hardly the first time a driver has had a whinge over the radio, is it?

Quite...

[layten]

It's also hardly the first time a driver has had a whinge over the radio, is it?

Did somebody invoke the spirit on Mansell?

[marsh]

Mansell used to go mental, there's a clip from him talking to Patrick Head (I think) on the pitwall in san marino in 1991 going apeshit bonkers at the mechanics about not being able to select 1st gear at the start of the race.

I'd rather they had a bloody good swear about it to be honest. That's the kind of stuff swearing was invented for. When my quad dumped the contents of it's radiator at my last enduro, my first words were not 'damn and blast!' but a much more suitable 'BOLLOCKS!'

I'm sure Lewis said 'whose idea was it to freaking pit anyway?' roughly translated......

[rafaqat]

I'm not surprised, Button seems to be acting as a great spokesperson for McLaren- did you see the bit before the race where he was showing the beeb around the Woking factory?

Hamilton has shown them round numerous times too from what I remember.

I think the age difference just shows.

[Halkyon]

Hamilton showed ITV round in 2008.

[Cheeko]

We'll see how the season plays out but I don't agree with everyone saying Hamilton was way faster and would've beaten Button, sure Hamilton overtook Button earlier on but Button wasn't happy with his tyres, he didn't choose to come into the pits early because everything was totally fine did he.

Also, you can't compare lap times and overtaking with two drivers in totally different races. Button was keeping his tyres so he didn't need to pit again and he was in much better shape than those Ferraris at the end of the race, he had enough of a lead that he could just cruise it home, even if Hamilton had gotten past Alonso, Massa and Kubica with enough laps to have a go at catching Button I'm sure Button would've just put in faster laptimes.

We can go aon all day about 'if's and 'but's but as Vettel has proved over the last couple of years, it doesn't matter what you could've achieved, it's about results and amidst everything Button got a great result and that's what he did all last season, even when his car was fading.

It's a perfect team pairing really, Hamilton who totally goes for it and can pull out a victory when odds are against him and Button who is a really steady guy but who,over the last year has become the steady guy that can overtake and turn in a damn fast lap with his new found confidence.

And they're both British!

[myoozikk]

Hamilton showed ITV round in 2008.

yeah he's done a few things like that...

[Sidewaysbob]

Malaysia.

It’s back to the world of Tilke racing on dull circuits. It’s big, it’s wide, it’s flat and we’re going to play spot the spectator again. I might rain, you never know. Monsoon season is upon us and the gods of interesting racing did smile on us last weekend so you never k now. The current prediction is for rain at some point during the weekend. Saturday and Sunday being goods bets as the start times have been moved back so us Europeans don’t have to get up too early.

Last year the heavens opened and dumped the contents of the Indian Ocean all over the circuit. They had to stop the show after 30 odd laps and hide in the pits. Where Kimi took his suit off and raided the ice cream van out the back. Button was given the win, mostly because he was the only one they could see. Heidfeld popped up in second, Glock got lucky with third and then Trulli managed to stay awake long enough to finish in fourth. Apart from Button none of that lot stands a chance this year.

This year it’s only a week since the last race and the buzz will be all about the Hamilton, Button fight. This might just be a press thing. Hamilton was pretty vocal about the team making the wrong call whilst Button was vocal about how he decided that he was changing tire when he wanted to. It’s an interesting view of the drivers where one is leading from the car telling his engineers what the score is, the other needs the team to tell him what to do, not having the confidence to say “no we’ll do it my way”. However, historically, Hamilton has always spanked the tires. If you’d been on the pit wall, would you have staked you job on Hamilton making soft tires last 50 odd laps? I don’t think I’d have done it.

So the press (who, don’t forget, said Button would be dead and buried by now) are saying that Hamilton has been kicked out of the team and toys are being thrown from the pram already. I doubt it. Its race two and people are still finding their path after all. Button got lucky with a pit call and then Vettels luck ran out. Hamilton over took a whole bunch of people and spanked the car all day. Hero to Zero in one race, such is life in the piranha club.

Ferrari also might have a few problems with team harmony. Alonso was clearly faster than Massa who was struggling on used tires, back in the day Mickey would have been ushered past the stricken team mate. These days he’s told to shut up and get on with it. How much does it grate with Alonso that he’s got 2 world championships to his name, but is not the team leader at Ferrari? Meanwhile Massa has quietly got two podium finishes without too much fuss. Could he

Down the road at Brawn things aren’t too rosy either, I’m shortening my odds on Mickey walking before the end of the season if this keeps up. He used to be peerless in the wet. Five seconds a lap faster than anyone else. He was the rain master. Not anymore. He was arsing around with Torro Rossos and Sauber. Not what he’s used too. Have we seen the last of the Brawns glory days? Whatever happens, it looks like Buttons decision to jump ship was inspired, not suicidal.

Things look troubled in the Redbull garage too. Vettel just can’t catch a break, two wins snatched from his happy grasp, Webber also having his share of bad luck. Webber has mostly made his own bad luck, getting all hairy scary when the fancy takes him. They had a reliability expert in the pits in Australia. The only reliable thing about him (or her I have no idea) is that they picked up the cheque reliably enough. They don’t have time to tear the cars apart and check everything, so they have to worried about what else can go wrong.

Renault did better than I expected, well Kubica did. Petrov hasn’t made the transition from GP2 to well, apparently he only has to get 25% of Kubicas’ points to keep his seat. I suspect he’ll struggle with that one if Kubica keeps getting podium finishes. It’ll all fall apart soon enough. They need investment and the boss is only in this for face time, points cost money, more than champagne in the hospitality suit.

Of the New boys, Lotus continue to be reliable, Virgin need to put a bigger fuel tank into the car and HRT got a car home in Australia. It was 3 laps behind the Lotus, but it did finish whilst Vettel and others didn’t.

Virgin are not going to finish unless there is a lengthy safety car or lots and lots of rain. HRT have two drivers that have never raced in the oppressive humidity of a Malaysia afternoon. Fitness could be an issue for them. Lotus will be on “home” soil so might try something stupid in qualifying so I don’t think it’s too cut and dried for Lotus just yet. Malaysia is going to be a hard test for all of the new boys.

I think this is going to as dull as Bahrain. If it rains in qualifying than that might mix it up, if it’s dry then it’ll be the usual suspects up front and you won’t need to watch the middle of the race. Rain will spice things up as long as it doesn’t rain like last year, then there won’t be a middle of the race.

[Christoph84]

Hamilton moaning over the radio isn't any different to Button doing the exact same thing last year.

[mexos]

I don't understand the fuss. I WANT him to be pissed that it's not worked out. He drove a great race, made up many times over for his shitty qually and got stuffed by a turkey of a decision on the pit wall. He drove his ass off for bugger all in the end, If that doesn't make him pissed then nothing will.

I enjoyed the interview with him right after the race, there was a question where you could see he was about to blurt something out - but instead paused and said the diplomatic answer. It was great - you could see the fire but he didn't blurt it out & have a big girlie moan like Barrichello last year.