Sport The Formula 1 Thread

[morcs]

DP

[morcs]

Because of course all the drivers obey the white lines 100%...

Well yes, or they get penalised obviously, exactly the same as the pit exit line.

The worst bit is the suggestion that each driver could use it a set number of times per lap. Yeah right, first time a Mclaren looked like winning the stewards would find an "irregularity" with the shortcuts taken by the driver.

It's pretty clear cut though isn't it? You take X + 1 number of shortcuts and you break the rules, you can't really take half a shortcut!

I'd much rather they bought in A1GP style turbo boosts.

Like KERS you mean?

[CouldBeWorse]

Like KERS you mean?

KERS would have been alright if all teams had to have it. Rather then it being optional...but too late now.

As for the shortcut idea, I've never heard something so stupid. Stop trying to fiddle with F1 every year. It'll end up ruined.

[morcs]

Arguably the fact that some had KERS and some didn't made it more interesting. As has been discussed before, if everyone had it, you wouldn't really gain much over not having it at all.

[CouldBeWorse]

Arguably the fact that some had KERS and some didn't made it more interesting. As has been discussed before, if everyone had it, you wouldn't really gain much over not having it at all.

Yeah, thats a good point. Just wish F1 would make new rules and stick to them rather then changing everything each year though no refuelling this year could be great. They will never make the field even unless it become a one make series (or the same chassis/shell but with different engines) so stop try to fiddle with it.

[dayte]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/for...t-have-your-say

I hear USF1's engine makes a great piece of toast!

It's hit the big time!

[dayte]

http://www.usgpe.com/chad-hurley.html

say what??? one of the Youtube co-founders is now one of the key players in US F1? Incredible.

[morcs]

Just wish F1 would make new rules and stick to them rather then changing everything each year though no refuelling this year could be great.

Definitely agree with that, the last two seasons have been great, no point ruining it by changing things unneccessarily!

[morcs]

Thinking about the shortcut thing some more (I admit Bernie might have been having a laugh but for the sake of argument). In Turkey 2009 Vettel made a mistake in lap 1 which allowed Button to take the lead, Button then spent the rest of the race in the lead and was able to ease off and back up into Vettel, because Vettel had no chance of passing.

Turkey could add a short-cut like here in red:

That would keep Button honest!

Vettel could choose to take this, and would gain a couple of car lengths in distance, but he'd come out on the straight with a lower exit speed than Button who has had more track and a straighter exit from turn 8 (which is full throttle on the normal layout). This means both cars would go into turn 9 side-by-side (something which we want, but can't happen on the standard layout without someone making a mistake, because of the aerodynamic issue).

I definitely wouldn't have a problem with them trying this out on a lower formula (as they did with the boost button), and assessing how it affects things . If Bernie suggested a boost button for F1 before anyone had seen it in lower formulae, he'd get exactly the same "this isn't Mario Kart" opposition, wouldn't he? And here we are with people suggesting it instead of shortcuts!

[Christoph84]

The whole idea of shortcuts doesn't improve overtaking. It'll alter the order of the cars, sure but they won't actually be dicing with each other. The net result would be similar to pit stop overtaking, it's all artificial.

They need to stop suggesting random ideas and concentrate on the technical regs; bigger tyres & smaller wings.

[morcs]

The whole idea of shortcuts doesn't improve overtaking. It'll alter the order of the cars, sure but they won't actually be dicing with each other.

I'm playing devil's advocate of course, but I'm saying if they're designed right they will increase overtaking, by allowing the cars to get right up close to each other where they couldn't before.

The basic theory is you gain track position but sacrifice speed, and the challenge happens at the corner after the shortcut.

[morcs]

bigger tyres & smaller wings.

I totally understand that argument, but isn't it at odds with Formula 1 being the pinnacle of motorsport? How much can you get out of stricter regulations before an F1 car is slower around the circuit than one of the supporting formulas?

[Sigourney Beaver]

Using shortcuts is basically admitting that the racing is crap.

[Christoph84]

I'm playing devil's advocate of course, but I'm saying if they're designed right they will increase overtaking, by allowing the cars to get right up close to each other where they couldn't before.

The basic theory is you gain track position but sacrifice speed, and the challenge happens at the corner after the shortcut.

I see your point but I think it makes a joke of the whole notion of overtaking being a test of skill and bravery. However, I guess it's positive that more people are tackling the issue of overtaking.

As an aside, good luck getting cash strapped circuits to stump up for all the extra track work!

[Christoph84]

I totally understand that argument, but isn't it at odds with Formula 1 being the pinnacle of motorsport? How much can you get out of stricter regulations before an F1 car is slower around the circuit than one of the supporting formulas?

I know it's a different discipline but MotoGP has been trying to slow the bikes down for years and they're still faster than they ever were. The lack of aerodynamics helps of course but engineers always find a way to go a bit faster.

The crux with F1 is, do you want the fastest cars on the planet that can do breathtaking laps times? Or do you want an entertaining and unpredictable on track spectacle? I don't think we can have both...

[morcs]

I see your point but I think it makes a joke of the whole notion of overtaking being a test of skill and bravery.

I think that's still there though? The following driver still has to get close enough to be able to use the shortcut (otherwise he wastes a "life"), and the bravery bit is definitely still there when the cars emerge side by side, not knowing who's going to come out of the next corner on top! It's still an overtake in the traditional sense, the (properly designed) shortcut just means they can set it up more often!

[Agent L]

The shortcut bit of track would be too 'green' to use at full speed as so few cars would travel over it. Only way it would work was if it was straight and not a corner.

[Sidewaysbob]

Ban the wings, bring back big fat sticky tires, get the cars sliding around. Job done.

[Sigourney Beaver]

If there was a safe way to, for example, miss the first chicane at Monza, that would be a shortcut worth taking.

[morcs]

The shortcut bit of track would be too 'green' to use at full speed as so few cars would travel over it. Only way it would work was if it was straight and not a corner.

Aye, but it's also shorter, so you're gaining track position at the expense of outright speed. That's what makes it useful only when you're stuck in the dirty air of another car.

[morcs]

If there was a safe way to, for example, miss the first chicane at Monza, that would be a shortcut worth taking.

I'd argue that would be too big an advantage, you'd fly past the other car!

[Dudley]

Aye, but it's also shorter, so you're gaining track position at the expense of outright speed. That's what makes it useful only when you're stuck in the dirty air of another car.

I think the point is you might NOT even gain track position. Sure it's shorter but you'd have to slow down so much because of the lack of rubber on the track that you might not even come out ahead.

[Sigourney Beaver]

I'd argue that would be too big an advantage, you'd fly past the other car!

Yeah, but you could shout "so long, suckers!" and wave at the other drivers.

[morcs]

Sure, I'm not advocating adding shortcuts willy-nilly without assessing the best layout for them! (Edit: In response to Dudley)

One way of doing that is to add it at a hairpin which leads into a long straight....

[LowCostMonkey]

I found this quite an interesting read.

Felipe Massa has revealed that he quizzed Nelson Piquet Jr and Flavio Briatore about the events of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix even before the scandal broke, having always been sceptical about Piquet's incident in that race.

Massa was leading in Singapore until the safety car came out due to Piquet's deliberate crash. A disastrous pitstop during the caution period then delayed Massa and left him unable to score in the race.

He subsequently lost that year's world championship to Lewis Hamilton by a single point.

Speaking to reporters at a Ferrari media event in Italy, Massa said he had put his suspicions to Piquet prior to the truth about the incident being revealed.

"I spoke to him, yeah. I spoke to him before [it became public]," said Massa. "We were going together to drive go-karts in Italy and I asked him about Singapore - I wanted to hear the right story because I was thinking that the combination [of events] was so perfect [for Renault], what happened in that race.

"And he was laughing, he didn't want to say the truth. I said 'okay, you're laughing, but I understood. Maybe one day we'll speak again'. And after one month or less, the story came back in the press.

"I even spoke to Flavio about that in Bahrain last year. I asked Flavio about Singapore and he said 'no, no, it's impossible' and he was even trying to laugh sometimes."

Massa insisted he saw no reason to revisit the incident now that the 2008 championship was long gone.

"But if I spoke to them after I knew? It didn't change anything," said Massa. "Why should I go there and speak? We will not go back to the past. We need to think about the present and the future. The past is the past.

"Everybody knows what happened in 2008. I don't think we're going to win anything by going back through all these problems. For sure it was very frustrating what was happening in that race, and it changed many things around the championship.

"But anyway, we need to think forward. I hope these things don't happen anymore - for the sport, not just the business. I hope we'll go back to fighting for the championship and I hope I can be a champion one day. That's the way I'm thinking."

However Massa did concede that he still sees no reason why the Singapore 2008 result could not have been annulled.

"If you see that something was not right in sport, that it was done in a way against the rules, I do not think it would have been a problem to change it," he said.

"It would not have been nice for the sport in general, but things should be done within the rules. That is my only opinion."

[morcs]

I guess Piquet made him drive off with the fuel rig still attached as well.

[Sidewaysbob]

Exactly. Massa lost the race because the Ferrari fuel rig lighting system failed. Not because Piquet his the wall.

[myoozikk]

sour grapes massa again. Cry me a river mate, you are another Ruben's, always the bridesmaid.

[mexos]

Ha! It's a pity really. He's just canceling out the kudos everyone gave him for being such a gracious looser at Interlagos.

[morcs]

Indeed I was beginning to like the little guy