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Nick_L

By Nick_L
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Wallace

Wallace

Posted
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And a team their about to buy a huge chunk of, which if I'm honest I don't really understand.

With the amount of trouble McLaren have managed to get themselves into in the past two seasons and how popular Brawn have become with their fairytale season, I can see why Mercedes fancy buying into them.

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gone fishin

gone fishin

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yeah, he whinged he was being knobled, then Ross said he was dog slow and he shopuld pick his toys up from around the pram.

I also imagine Mercedes had a word, they want a german driving their engine it would seem.

I've said it before, it really pisses me off when driver decisions are made on component suppliers. Rosberg is not a bad driver, and I think he may be able to grow next year, but how many fucking drivers in F1 get a race- purely because of their passport? You would then think there should be a shit load of British drivers, with the amount of British teams- but it seems the sponsors, and engine suppliers, have way too big a say in this.

So they're getting rid of the number 3 driver in the world, because the engine supplier says it wants a German driver? No matter how much money they're pumping into the team, Brawn should take a look at Williams and the mistakes they've made over the same thing.

Another point though- if Mercedes are getting all nice and close to Brawn (but also loosening their ties with McLaren), will it mean that McLaren will go back to the white of before, and Brawn will go silver- basically a swap over!

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gone fishin

gone fishin

Posted
Posted
The engine supplier will probably pay the chosen drivers salary by way of sponsorship or reduced fees though so it's fair enough and a good way to save loads of cash.

But if that's the argument, then should a football sponsor be deciding on the team selection? On who gets bought?

A sponsor brings revenue, yes, but they should have absolutely no say in running the team. It always strikes me as a cheap way for an engine supplier (in particular), or any sponsor to almost have an F1 team. Except they can just pull out if it all goes tits up.

EDIT- of course, if it turns out that Mercedes are actually buying 75% of Brawn, and rebranding it to Mercedes.. then I understand it :ph34r:

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Agent L

Agent L

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But if that's the argument, then should a football sponsor be deciding on the team selection? On who gets bought?

A sponsor brings revenue, yes, but they should have absolutely no say in running the team. It always strikes me as a cheap way for an engine supplier (in particular), or any sponsor to almost have an F1 team. Except they can just pull out if it all goes tits up.

EDIT- of course, if it turns out that Mercedes are actually buying 75% of Brawn, and rebranding it to Mercedes.. then I understand it :ph34r:

I don't know if the football thing happens, i don't like football, I would imagine it does to some extent though, certainly with pressure to sign a top level player anyway to get a bit more publicity if not specifically which player.

I don't see a problem with it in F1 myself. They pay the bills, they therefore have a little right to some say. Depends on how much of the bills they pick up how much of a say they have.

With Brawn I don't think it was ever the plan to keep Rubens after year 1 as the team would have had to take a total rookie in year one if they'd let him go. Now they've proved themselves as contenders they have a much bigger choice and of new drivers and if it comes down to a choice of 2 or 3 but the engine supplier (soon to be major stakeholders) say they'd rather have a certain one then why not. They can't afford two real top line drivers so go for the one that makes the sponsors happy, that way they stay on for a new contract next year etc.

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

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Being reported here that Redbull are keeping Renault power for next year. Haven't seen it elsewhere yet so slightly sceptical at the moment.

True.

There is less and less difference between the engines each year.

They had the fastest car at most races this year with the Renault engine. But blew a few, which Renault themselves didn't.

Some say the installation was very marginal for cooling.

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morcs

morcs

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Yeah the Red Bull was quite different to all the other chassis thanks to cleverly turning the rear suspension upside-down and switching to pull-rods to give it a very low rear end. That gave them trouble implementing the double diffuser which would have further complicated the packaging of the engine and gearbox.

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

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With the amount of trouble McLaren have managed to get themselves into in the past two seasons and how popular Brawn have become with their fairytale season, I can see why Mercedes fancy buying into them.

McLaren have dragged Mercedes through all sorts of lying and cheating dirt.

Also McLaren are setting up a road car division in direct competition with Mercedes.

Also iirc the Mercedes McLaren deal only has two seasons left.

Brawn will be very, very happy to be the official Mercedes team.

Puts him back to exactly where he was at Ferrari, but with more power.

Access to Mercedes technology will help keep Brawn at the front.

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gone fishin

gone fishin

Posted
Posted
McLaren have dragged Mercedes through all sorts of lying and cheating dirt.

Also McLaren are setting up a road car division in direct competition with Mercedes.

Also iirc the Mercedes McLaren deal only has two seasons left.

Brawn will be very, very happy to be the official Mercedes team.

Puts him back to exactly where he was at Ferrari, but with more power.

Access to Mercedes technology will help keep Brawn at the front.

It also explains why Virgin have pulled out of sponsoring them next year- Branson probably has in his mind to eventually have Virgin F1- if Mercedes are rebranding Brawn, then that isn't going to happen. But I could see Virgin buying out Manor....

I did think it was strange that Ross Brawn never wanted the team to be called Brawn, maybe he's just not as egotistical as some people are! Or maybe it's just the amount of pressure in running a team with your name on it.

Does it mean that the two big teams of the next decade will be Mercedes (Brawn) and Ferrari? Should be interesting...

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

Posted
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Drive of the year for me was Button at Barcelona.

The teams have all tested here for years so they know the place inside out.

The fastest race strategy is a three stopper.

Button got a bad start and his position was compromised so he had no chance of winning the race.

His team, on the fly, put him on a two stopper, with a long middle stint.

To make it stick he had to run at qualifying pace on every lap between the two stops.

Something that took superhuman skill and concentration.

Then his back tyres became shagged under the the pounding they were getting and the car became an oversteering monster.

And still Button controlled it and still he put in the amazing times. With the back end barely controllable. Building an 11 second lead.

An epic drive.

And Rubens could not believe that he hadn't won.

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Sigourney Beaver

Sigourney Beaver

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Less races decided by fuel tactics? No starting light to get that early pace etc. Evens up the field a little more but yeah as you said ain't gonna change much.

I know, but back in the early nineties I remember drivers going a whole race on the harder compound tyre without stopping. Kinda defeats the object if they're still forced to pit. Especially since Bridgestone backtracked on the gap between compounds. That was the biggest annoyance of the season for me.

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marsh

marsh

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Unfuckingbelieveable, as much as I hate them and the money no object win fuck all mentality, I am quite suprised. And the reason for that is the plucky young Japanese driver that's just hopped in the car and driven the tits off it. I get the impression that even in a shit car he's got a bit of drive in him and punching well above the cars weight.

The question is, who's next? Renault?

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

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Unfuckingbelieveable, as much as I hate them and the money no object win fuck all mentality, I am quite suprised. And the reason for that is the plucky young Japanese driver that's just hopped in the car and driven the tits off it. I get the impression that even in a shit car he's got a bit of drive in him and punching well above the cars weight.

The question is, who's next? Renault?

This has proved Max to be 100% right.

He said the manufacturers would go.

He put in the mechanisms to make F1 more affordable.

And he arranged for all the new teams to join the sport.

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

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Less races decided by fuel tactics? No starting light to get that early pace etc. Evens up the field a little more but yeah as you said ain't gonna change much.

Perhaps more races decided by fuel tactics. As in the old days of no refueling.

Do you fuel enough for your driver to do the whole race flat out? Knowing he will start the race heavy and therefore slow.

Or do you go short on fuel knowing your driver can ease up when he is in the Trulli Train, cruising out in front or whatever? Then he will be lighter and faster at the start of the race.

The same with the drivers. If they are super smooth they will be able to run the race with less fuel. Prost always used less race fuel than his team mates.

The trick for race strategy is to finish the race on zero fuel. Then you haven't carted extra weight round for the whole race. So the engineers will be calculating right to the edge. Which means that if a driver gets more racy than expected he will run out of fuel before the end of the race. Which is what we saw in the old days.

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Sidewaysbob

Sidewaysbob

Posted
Posted

As Toyota signed the concorde agreement, anyone could step in to buy the team and thus be in bahrain for the first GP. BMW are still not in just yet.

That's if Toyota are willing to sell the team. They may just close it down and try and forget about the pain. I think BMW's only chance is if the Americans don't turn up and sell their concorde signiture to sauber.

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