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Nick_L

By Nick_L
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MrPogo

MrPogo

Posted
Posted
As a devils advocate. If I qualify 10th with a 5 place penalty and you 5th with a 10 place penalty, who starts 15th?

I more meant it seems a bit off that (to take just the Brawns) Button ended up three places back and Rubens only one place back when they both received a five place drop for the same offence!

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Bushtopher

Bushtopher

Posted
Posted
I more meant it seems a bit off that (to take just the Brawns) Button ended up three places back and Rubens only one place back when they both received a five place drop for the same offence!

And within seconds of each other too - Button was following Barri on track - and the penalties were applied in the order in which they occurred. That's what I find strange.... and annoying!

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roskelld

roskelld

Posted
Posted

So nothing more has been mentioned about the Rosberg incident. Did the FIA even bother with it at all?

1 Jenson Button		1	1	3	1	1	1	1	6	5	7	7	Ret	2	5	8 85
2 Rubens Barrichello	2	5	4	5	2	2	Ret	3	6	10	1	7	1	6	7 71
3 Sebastian Vettel	13†	15†	1	2	4	Ret	3	1	2	Ret	Ret	3	8	4	1 69

Button deserves to win.

6 race wins

All but one race finish in the top 8

1 retirement (due to being crashed in to)

He's performed the best throughout the season.

Apart from Rubi's 2 wins, he hasn't really dominated button at all, even despite getting better qualifying places. Button managed to overtake Rubi in Singapore, and would have pushed on towards Vettel if his brakes hadn't given out. He was faster in Japan, but couldn't manage to make up the places to take him.

I agree that Button likes to be in a balanced car, and there are great drivers out there that manage to pull out amazing shit from under-performing and imbalanced cars. Kimi and Massa look like they've done great jobs in that Ferrari this year as it does sound like a bag of shit to handle. Alonso has kept that Renault in check while his teammates have been propping up the back of the field.

Overall though, Button's the deserved winner on the field. He's performed the best out of all the drivers throughout the season.

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Agent L

Agent L

Posted
Posted
So nothing more has been mentioned about the Rosberg incident. Did the FIA even bother with it at all?

As far as I'm aware, the problem was that the low fuel warning on the steering wheel display overrides the lap time display which shows a + or - to indicate if the driver needs to slow down or speed up to get to the correct lap time. It's FIA-supplied software, so Williams couldn't do anything about it and therefore didn't really do anything wrong. I 'think' Rosberg did slow for the lap overall but just not enough so common sense is not to punish him/them for a mistake they couldn't really control as Rosberg had no aid to tell him what speed to be driving at.

And I agree with you about Button.

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roskelld

roskelld

Posted
Posted 


2008
1 Lewis Hamilton	1	5	13	3	2	1	Ret	10	1	1	5	2	3	7	3	12	1	5 98
2 Felipe Massa		Ret	Ret	1	2	1	3	5	1	13	3	17†	1	1	6	13	7	2	1 97
3 Kimi Räikkönen	8†	1	2	1	3	9	Ret	2	4	6	3	Ret	18†	9	15†	3	3	3 75

Lewis: 
5 Wins
1 Retire
3 Finishes out of top 8 (Not including Ret)

2007
1 Kimi Räikkönen	1	3	3	Ret	8	5	4	1	1	Ret	2	2	3	1	3	1	1 110
2 Lewis Hamilton	3	2	2	2	2	1	1	3	3	9	1	5	2	4	1	Ret	7 109
3 Fernando Alonso	2	1	5	3	1	7	2	7	2	1	4	3	1	3	Ret	2	3 109

Kimi:
6 Wins
2 Retire
0 Finishes out of top 8 (Not including Ret)

2006
1 Fernando Alonso	1	2	1	2	2	1	1	1	1	5	2	5	Ret	2	Ret	2	1	2 134
2 M. Schumacher	2	6	Ret	1	1	2	5	2	2	1	1	1	8	3	1	1	Ret	4 121
3 Felipe Massa		9	5	Ret	4	3	4	9	5	5	2	3	2	7	1	9	Ret	2	1 80

Teflonso:
7 Wins
2 Retire
0 Finishes out of top 8 (Not including Ret)

Even looking back at the previous three years, Button has performed well. This season has been so close through the field, and I think that the testing ban has given us a double edge sword of a season, where we've seen all manufactures stay pretty close to each other in the race and lap times because we no longer have the likes of Ferrari spending ultra millions on constant testing, and Force India not; we're light years away from the old days of the 7+ second difference from the front to the back of the field. Shit remember when cars would fail to qualify because of not finishing within 7 seconds (IIRC) of the pole time?

The other sharp edge of the blade is the downside where we've seen people suffer due to lack of lap time and testing. Fisi shouldn't be as slow as he is in the Ferrari, but he can't test drive it, he's learning on the track and it's clearly a shit car to drive that takes a lot of getting used to. We're seeing a lot of mistakes, and I personally can't point the finger at the drivers for being shit, you can't be shit in F1 (Piquet, shhhh) but you can lack car and track knowledge and I think that's been the big downside to the testing ban. It's also proving to be potentially dangerous too.

EDIT: Damn those codeboxes are big and shit. bah.

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roskelld

roskelld

Posted
Posted
As far as I'm aware, the problem was that the low fuel warning on the steering wheel display overrides the lap time display which shows a + or - to indicate if the driver needs to slow down or speed up to get to the correct lap time. It's FIA-supplied software, so Williams couldn't do anything about it and therefore didn't really do anything wrong. I 'think' Rosberg did slow for the lap overall but just not enough so common sense is not to punish him/them for a mistake they couldn't really control as Rosberg had no aid to tell him what speed to be driving at.

And I agree with you about Button.

That's fair enough I suppose... FIALOL :P

It wouldn't have been as exciting to see the constructors being decided in a monkey pit anyway.

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Agent L

Agent L

Posted
Posted
I don't understand how a low fuel warning can be allowed to override information which the FIA would probably say is important safety information. But then I've been reading about the grid penalties and don't understand those either.

I think it was coded wrong in the software or just wasn't considered. Sure it'll be changed now that it's actually happened, don't think it ever had before.

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roskelld

roskelld

Posted
Posted
Piquet says the plan for him to crash to benefit team-mate Fernando Alonso's strategy was only made shortly before the race, claiming he did not have time to think it through and that he was under pressure for his place in the team.

"It all happened so quickly, I must confess that I could never possibly have weighed up the consequences," he said. "I was in a difficult position at the time and the renegotiation of my contract was in play if I didn't accept the strategy. I was taken by surprise by the request of the two most important people in the team — after all, one of them was my manager.

Don't believe it.

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SteveH

SteveH

Posted
Posted
To be fair, myself a couple of others said similar about Button when there was a bit of negativity about him before.

Ah sorry, I don't venture in here much since I was chased away by angry forumites with pitchforks, after I could never resist venting my hatred for Hamilton. I pop in and then pop out quickly before my urges take over, so missed a lot of stuff.

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

Posted
Posted
So nothing more has been mentioned about the Rosberg incident. Did the FIA even bother with it at all?

1 Jenson Button		1	1	3	1	1	1	1	6	5	7	7	Ret	2	5	8 85
2 Rubens Barrichello	2	5	4	5	2	2	Ret	3	6	10	1	7	1	6	7 71
3 Sebastian Vettel	13†	15†	1	2	4	Ret	3	1	2	Ret	Ret	3	8	4	1 69

Button deserves to win.

6 race wins

All but one race finish in the top 8

1 retirement (due to being crashed in to)

He's performed the best throughout the season.

Apart from Rubi's 2 wins, he hasn't really dominated button at all, even despite getting better qualifying places. Button managed to overtake Rubi in Singapore, and would have pushed on towards Vettel if his brakes hadn't given out. He was faster in Japan, but couldn't manage to make up the places to take him.

I agree that Button likes to be in a balanced car, and there are great drivers out there that manage to pull out amazing shit from under-performing and imbalanced cars. Kimi and Massa look like they've done great jobs in that Ferrari this year as it does sound like a bag of shit to handle. Alonso has kept that Renault in check while his teammates have been propping up the back of the field.

Overall though, Button's the deserved winner on the field. He's performed the best out of all the drivers throughout the season.

Very nicely put.

Overall Button is one of the best driver currently in F1.

Certainly one of the very best overtakers, as he proved again this weekend.

And as he proved when he overtook a KERS equipped Hamilton earlier in the season.

He seems to be able to drive round car handling problems in the race, but not in qualifying.

Definitely he got more points than seemed possible when his tyres weren't working in the cold races.

His speed and smoothness has been a joy to behold all season, there has been a phase in nearly every race when he has turned the taps up to full.

I think that the Red Bulls have been fastest nearly all season and if it was just up to the cars then they would be champions.

Happily Button is a fair bit better than both Red Bull drivers. Which is why he is leading them in the standings.

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

Posted
Posted
Ah sorry, I don't venture in here much since I was chased away by angry forumites with pitchforks, after I could never resist venting my hatred for Hamilton. I pop in and then pop out quickly before my urges take over, so missed a lot of stuff.

Hamilton is not the main problem.

It is his fanbois who can't see his many weaknesses.

And who slag off all other drivers who aren't Hamilton.

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roskelld

roskelld

Posted
Posted

I was trying to find anywhere that keeps a record of overtaking in F1... It would be pretty interesting to see a table of data that shows who's done the most, for what positions etc...

It's sadly not something that happens often in F1 so every single event of it should be cherished.

Anyone know of a good data resource for this?

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mexos

mexos

Posted
Posted
I was trying to find anywhere that keeps a record of overtaking in F1... It would be pretty interesting to see a table of data that shows who's done the most, for what positions etc...

It's sadly not something that happens often in F1 so every single event of it should be cherished.

Anyone know of a good data resource for this?

Atlas F1 probably. But you need an Autosport subscription.

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JPR

JPR

Posted
Posted
I was trying to find anywhere that keeps a record of overtaking in F1... It would be pretty interesting to see a table of data that shows who's done the most, for what positions etc...

It's sadly not something that happens often in F1 so every single event of it should be cherished.

Anyone know of a good data resource for this?

There's a really good thread looking at overtaking HERE, if you go through the thread there's analysis of each race this year up to Italy. The graphs looking at the overtakes per season since 1983 make for some depressing viewing though. Only just found that forum but it does look like they have some really good analysis and data for anything you need.

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Hackign

Hackign

Posted
Posted

We ideally need to lock the FIA rulemakers in a room with a complete season boxset of Wacky Races and a bluray of Speed Racer with a note saying "You're not getting out till you've made some rules that make it like this",

Oh and copies of F-Zero and WipeOut.

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roskelld

roskelld

Posted
Posted
There's a really good thread looking at overtaking HERE, if you go through the thread there's analysis of each race this year up to Italy. The graphs looking at the overtakes per season since 1983 make for some depressing viewing though. Only just found that forum but it does look like they have some really good analysis and data for anything you need.

That's ace, cheers.

I've just took a few snaps of the table so we can see them in here, but it's worth looking at the thread itself

20091005-dhs345a8r3keqfdy9ctsc9fww1.jpg

20091005-mrjxxf2eirsts151m64babi7j5.jpg

This one is great and continues the depressing trend

20091005-t6uh7s3ympes1wsc2itsgbw3qk.jpg

20091005-8yiwi7496b7xuy7q4k18jn4asx.jpg

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