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The Formula 1 Thread

Nick_L

By Nick_L
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LowCostMonkey

LowCostMonkey

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Here we go. I have been watching/following F1 since Jim Clark in the Lotus 25. Don't support any team/driver, just watch and enjoy. Here is my take on the current top drivers in F1. Obviously everyone will disagree, especially the fanbois. It is important to note that there is a huge difference between being fast and being a racer. As soon as you have much understeer or oversteer you are no longer fast.

Button: Incredibly fast as he uses the maximum grip from all four tyres with his driving style. Peerless in the wet, one magazine analysed him as the fastest ever wet driver. Very rarely makes mistakes. Demon overtaker, has made 8 places in an F1 race on a number of occasions. Won all 34 races of the 1991 British Cadet Kart Championship. Likes a car to be set up to his neutral driving style. Very light and sensitive on the car.

Kimi: Certainly the fastest driver currently in F1, possibly the fastest ever. Amazingly brave. Would be 3X WDC if McLaren hadn't given him fragile cars. Won WDC in second best car. Light on tyres which can cause him tyre temperature problems. Often does fastest lap in the race.

Vettel: Very fast. Useless at overtaking and makes lots of mistakes. Over rated?

Alonso: The most complete all round driver currently in F1. Has it all. Will get good results out of a bad car. 2X WDC against Schumacher and Kimi. Massively improved a dog of a Renault over each of the last two seasons. Multiple more WDC potential at Ferrari.

Hamilton: By far the best racer currently in F1. Driving style precludes him from being truly fast. Has been favoured with the best car until this year. Did not make a poor car outperform. Rough on tyres which may cause problems with heavier cars next year. Still learning and improving rapidly. Still makes lots of mistakes.

Kubica: Very fast and a great racer. Last year was leading the WDC in an inferior car. Very rarely makes mistakes. Multiple WDC material given a good car. I think he is a better all round driver than Hamilton and is the best of the new intake.

Massa: Great technician after many years of Schumacher tutoring. Fast in the right car. Needs to lead from the front, not the best racer currently in F1.

Rubens: Jedi journeyman. Immense experience and good cars give him results. But always a natural number two driver.

You're my new favourite poster in this thread ^_^

I agree with that absoloutely 100%. I just wish I could have expressed it as well you did just then.

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McCoy

McCoy

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Given this discussion of tyres, how do we think the change next year to ban refueling will affect the current crop of drivers. Clearly pit stops will still have to be made to replace tyres but will this actually translate into an advantage for people who keep their tyres in good nick or will in reality everyone just be pitting pretty much at the same time. I imagine it will allow a certain level of strategy to come into play about when to bring the cars in and for how many pit stops. Although still not sure that stopping cars from refueling will make F1 better as often in a dull race half the fun comes from pit stops going awry as seen in Singapore. It might however stop one driver heavy on fuel slowing up everyone else since everyone will have the same fuel.

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LowCostMonkey

LowCostMonkey

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Given this discussion of tyres, how do we think the change next year to ban refueling will affect the current crop of drivers. Clearly pit stops will still have to be made to replace tyres but will this actually translate into an advantage for people who keep their tyres in good nick or will in reality everyone just be pitting pretty much at the same time. I imagine it will allow a certain level of strategy to come into play about when to bring the cars in and for how many pit stops. Although still not sure that stopping cars from refueling will make F1 better as often in a dull race half the fun comes from pit stops going awry as seen in Singapore. It might however stop one driver heavy on fuel slowing up everyone else since everyone will have the same fuel.

The front tyres will be narrower next year too. Really going to affect the balance of the cars.

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Agent L

Agent L

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Given this discussion of tyres, how do we think the change next year to ban refueling will affect the current crop of drivers. Clearly pit stops will still have to be made to replace tyres but will this actually translate into an advantage for people who keep their tyres in good nick or will in reality everyone just be pitting pretty much at the same time. I imagine it will allow a certain level of strategy to come into play about when to bring the cars in and for how many pit stops. Although still not sure that stopping cars from refueling will make F1 better as often in a dull race half the fun comes from pit stops going awry as seen in Singapore. It might however stop one driver heavy on fuel slowing up everyone else since everyone will have the same fuel.

Personally I hope it does stop the train of people following heavier cars that get out of position.

As for strategy, hopefully there will be a lot mixing it up, smooth drivers like Button should in theory be able to get a noticeable number more laps from the tyres than someone that's rough on them. A big flat spot will have more of an impact no too as you can't change fuel strategy to compensate.

In reality, as you say though, it will probably be much the same.

Didn't know the front tyres were narrower. Know the figures?

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LowCostMonkey

LowCostMonkey

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Didn't know the front tyres were narrower. Know the figures?

I'm not sure the exact figure. It's not by much but it will still make a difference.

It's also worth noting that the minimum weight is going up by 15kg too. Although the extra 15g will be used as ballast so it will actually help with the balance change from the increased fuel tanks.

Another important point is the balance of the car will change as the race goes on (i.e. with the COD shifting towards the front as the fuel is burnt off). So drivers who can adapt better might speed up more towards the end of the race. Here's looking at you Alonso.

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morcs

morcs

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know they use deformable fuel tanks (bags) and part of it goes under the driver but I still think that the COG will stay roughly the same, just lower down, as the fuel gets burnt.

The tank is between driver and engine right?

Yeah, the COG of the fuel will stay roughly the same I would think, but it's still stored towards the rear of the car (as you say around the driver and engine).

So when the fuel is gone there is relatively less weight on the rear.

I.e. The front and rear will get lighter, but the rear more so.

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Dom B

Dom B

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Piquet: 2003 British F3 six wins, five podiums and eight pole positions. 2004 won championship. 2006 2nd in GP2 championship.

Speed: Prolific karting career from age 10, won 200 SKUSA Super Pro Title. 2004, won Formula Renault 2000 Eurocup series and German Formula Renault series. 2005 3rd in GP2 series.

Nakajima: 1999 Suzuka Formula ICA karting champion. 2003 Formula Toyota champion. 2005 2nd Japan F3 series. 2005 GP2 top rookie with 5 podiums.

Grosjean: 2003 Swiss Formula Renault 1.6 championship, won all ten rounds. 2005 French Formula Renault champion with 10 wins. 2007 F3 Euroseries champion. 2008 GP2 top rookie.

Alguersuari: 2006, won Italian Formula Renault Winter Series. 2008 British F3 champion (youngest ever).

Buemi: 2007 second in F3 Euroseries chamionship. 2008 GP2 Asia came second in series.

Jarno Trulli: F1 4 pole positions. 10 podium finishes.

Umm... maybe I'm missing something, but according to your own post there, all but one of those drivers failed to win their final championship prior to joining F1, which means there were better drivers in those championships. So how does that back up your claim that they are the best in world???

Also, quoting Trulli's F1 achievements says nothing about his ability relative to non-F1 drivers, obviously.

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marsh

marsh

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I'm fairly certain that the fuel will be able to be moved around the car to act as ballast in a certain sense. Car design has changed quite abit though with the driver being further forward of the side pods where historically the fuel used to be stored. What would make it slightly more interesting is if half the field were on a different brand of tyre, though the old pirelli teams of the 90's would beg to differ, they're hard compounds used to be made out of granite.

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LowCostMonkey

LowCostMonkey

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COG moving forward as the fuel is burnt? Wont it go lower down the chassis rather than frontwards? Or are the fuel tanks some sort of weird cone shape angled down towards the front of the car?

It's behind the driver, so as that space empties and gets lighter, the COG will move forwards. I'm not saying it will be the front, just that it will shift fowards.

Edit: yeah, what morcs said ^_^

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McCoy

McCoy

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I certainly hope Bridgestone will offer a tyre that will do a full race distance. If not there's no point getting rid of refuelling. It will be the same but with shorter pit stops.

I thought the reason was a cost saving measure to prevent the fuel rigs having to be transported around...

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jimbob101

jimbob101

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What's the rational behind the thinner front tyres? I'm under the impression that one of the major causes of the lack of overtaking is dirty air, and bringing back the slicks was to increase the % of mechanical grip against aerodynamic. I say ban all but the tiniest wings and give them all massive slick tyres.

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morcs

morcs

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I say ban all but the tiniest wings and give them all massive slick tyres.

The problem is that F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport, do this and you make the cars much slower, couldn't you argue that they might as well drive touring cars?

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GwiDan

GwiDan

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How'd you get the alt commentary on Virgin Media? I had a look for it on Sunday but couldn't work out how to change to it. I think I'm giving up on Brundle and Legard, there's nothing in their commentary I haven't heard before or couldn't say for myself. It's Legard's fault - literally all he does is reel off info from the timing screen, there's no debate about the significance of anything, and it's all massively dull. They should put Davidson, Croft and Brundle in the TV commentary.

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Sidewaysbob

Sidewaysbob

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And have a series where the action is in the actual racing and overtaking rather than the off-track politics? Nah.

See the problem is, a car traveling at 180mph is going to create a big hole in the air, wings or no wings. On tracks like Monza and Spa that's not such a big deal as there isn't much other than straights and full on speed.

In Monaco, Valencia, Singapore, Hungary etc, the follwing car can't get close enough before the lack of air causes the engine to over heat and the loss of downforce, which causes the car to slid more and the tires to over heat and go off. Wings don't really make that much different to the car follwing. They can get close enough but becuase breaking distances are so short these days, it's very difficult to out break the car infront. Unless they pull a do or die move. But as the FIA now use the ban hammer on anyone using the run off an d curbs and stuff, over takingis very much relient on the car infront being rubbish.

So the car behind has to hang around hoping the driver in front makes a mistake while they slide around and the engine temps go up. So they have to drop back, so they aren't close enough when the driver infront makes a mistake.

Wings aren't really the problem. It's speeds and breaking distances.

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Snowman

Snowman

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What's the rational behind the thinner front tyres? I'm under the impression that one of the major causes of the lack of overtaking is dirty air, and bringing back the slicks was to increase the % of mechanical grip against aerodynamic. I say ban all but the tiniest wings and give them all massive slick tyres.

I read somewhere that it's supposed to fix a handling imbalance caused by the return to slicks. I've no idea how true that is.

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