Sport The Formula 1 Thread

[dayte]

Holy crap, I didn't even know this was on this weekend, saw it in the news... Rosberg Pole! All Mercedes front row! Kobayashi 4th!! :omg:

Ahahaha Vettel outside the top 10!!!! This GP is magic already!

This could be an amazing race. At the moment I'm almost tempted to suggest Sauber are looking good for a win!

This time the Reds won't deny them IT IS THEIR DESTINY!

[Petrousgyre]

Notice there hasn't been much discussion about the recent Bahrain go-ahead in this thread. How do you all feel about the FIA lending support to a state that, amongst other things, imprisons doctors and nurses for up to 15 years for treating seriously injured civilians?

[Velse]

Notice there hasn't been much discussion about the recent Bahrain go-ahead in this thread. How do you all feel about the FIA lending support to a state that, amongst other things, imprisons doctors and nurses for up to 15 years for treating seriously injured civilians?

There's been a fair bit over the last few pages. My feeling is that Bahrain is one of a long list of tragedies that occur seemingly constantly around the world, and that my viewing or not viewing it will make zero difference (just like buying or not buying an iPad doesn't change the exploitation of Foxconn employees, and buying or not buying petrol doesn't alter the numerous oil related environmental disasters worldwide). I'm happy for people not to watch it and feel like in doing so they in some way have the moral highground, but I really don't think they do.

[Dudley]

Notice there hasn't been much discussion about the recent Bahrain go-ahead in this thread. How do you all feel about the FIA lending support to a state that, amongst other things, imprisons doctors and nurses for up to 15 years for treating seriously injured civilians?

There's been plenty of discussion. I will be doing the only thing you can do, not watch.

Sadly some people seem to think that making any kind of a stand is pitiful and come up with insane strawman to justify it.

No Velse one person won't. But everyone not watching would and I'm part of everyone.

[Petrousgyre]

There's been a fair bit over the last few pages. My feeling is that Bahrain is one of a long list of tragedies that occur seemingly constantly around the world, and that my viewing or not viewing it will make zero difference (just like buying or not buying an iPad doesn't change the exploitation of Foxconn employees, and buying or not buying petrol doesn't alter the numerous oil related environmental disasters worldwide). I'm happy for people not to watch it and feel like in doing so they in some way have the moral highground, but I really don't think they do.

This isn't about whether people should watch it or not, that's a slightly different issue. I'm asking whether a sporting body should lend its support to a state that has an appalling human rights record. Your other points are odd, this idea that the sort of cruelty Bahrain has inflicted on its own people is somehow inevitable and as such should just be ignored is just nonsense. That sort of thinking, worse still - tacitly endorsing this brutal regime only serves to strengthen this kind of behaviour. Also, whilst the Foxconn issue is an important one I'm not sure Foxconn are torturing and executing staff then encarceratng doctors and nurses for treating their wounded employees.

[Dudley]

Oh the sporting body shouldn't be running it.

But the only viable way to protest that since they don't give a shit is to hurt their wallet as much as you can do.

[Simbo]

Kind of wishing Johnny Herbert would replace Damon Hill all the time on the Sky coverage...

Totally agree. He seemed more at ease with the whole thing and came across well. (Although i did chuckle when he completely failed to understand the Chuck Norris joke).

[dayte]

This isn't about whether people should watch it or not, that's a slightly different issue. I'm asking whether a sporting body should lend its support to a state that has an appalling human rights record.

If not, then.....Malaysia (discriminatory laws against minority Malaysians of Chinese/Indian ethnicity), China (obvious), Bahrain, Canada (annual seal cub hunt), Singapore (draconian legal system), India (treatment of minorities and low caste communities, despite being illegal), Abu Dhabi (treatment of migrant - slave - workers), USA (detention of suspected terrorists and protestors without trial, various disproportionate use of force against its own citizens, and of course multiple invasions and drone bombings of sovereign territory - at the cost of hundreds of thousands of civilian - foreign - lives), and finally Brazil (the millions living in ghettos are worth nothing and are frequently exploited by criminals and authorities alike).... will all be off the calendar.

Just because it isn't in the mainstream news doesn't mean it isn't significant.

[Velse]

I didn't say they should be ignored, I just said that they're the latest in a long line of nasty things that happen around the world, and I don't buy into the idea that not watching it expresses anything. It isn't like Bahrain was all kittens and sunshine prior to the Arab Spring, is it? As has been stated, couldn't we boycott China too? They do all kinds of nasty shit. Is there a threshold of nastiness beyond which a race would be unacceptable?

Protesting by not watching is something that can be explained away pretty easily as variance in viewing figures, particularly given the Bahrain GP is on the poor side generally anyway. If you're going to protest at least do it properly by writing some letters/emails to the FIA, teams, significant sponsors, asking them how they feel to be associated with such a race. McLaren must be feeling pretty uncomfortable around now.

I'd rather they weren't racing there, and I still expect it to be binned at the eleventh hour.

In answer to the question, no the FIA should not lend its support to Bahrain. But it isn't really that simple. The FIA is a business, and the to go back on the contract would no doubt have consequences, not just in financial terms but also when it comes to negotiating future deals. The other countries that could be considered morally questionnable, are they going to back out for fear of being jilted? Are Russia going to stop trying to host a GP just in case the FIA take a disliking to them next time they poison an agent overseas?

[Dandy_Sephy]

It shouldn't have been on the calendar in the first place. Once it's on the calendar you've committed to go, so you either cancel at the last minute or convince yourself you should go. They should have replaced it with something 'safer'.

[The Bag]

Rosberg's awesome pole broke BBC2

[JohnC]

There's been more violence kicking off because of the F1 go-ahead. So they can't really say its nothing to do with them.

[Petrousgyre]

Is there a threshold of nastiness beyond which a race would be unacceptable?

Yes, at the very least when a state engages in widespread torture, has its troops fire live ammunition into crowds of unarmed civilians then imprisons the doctors and nurses that treat the injured - at that point I would argue that you should not be a suitable host for a prestigious sporting event broadcast worldwide.

Certainly there are human rights issues in most countries to some degree but Bahrains record, whilst never great in recent times, is currently abhorrent and critically poised. The FIA are only helping to legitimise and strengthen an actively brutal regime, not the sort off behaviour you'd imagine a sport should be endorsing.

Dayte, your argument is broadly similar - they club seals in Canada and have a caste system in India so fuck it, let's award Assad's Syria the next Olympics.

[dayte]

Dayte, your argument is broadly similar - they club seals in Canada and have a caste system in India so fuck it, let's award Assad's Syria the next Olympics.

Lol wut. I didn't say or imply that. But YOU said should the FIA be supporting this... if not, then in the same vein they should not be supporting the races of the above for the mentioned reasons.

[whizzo]

Ive just became someone who complains to the bbc about tv shows

Pressing the red button to watch the qualifying this morning to be greeted with a large headline of "Rosberg gets Pole in China!"

[Petrousgyre]

Lol wut. I didn't say or imply that.

Your argument is that most countries have some form of rights abuses, you can't stop races in those other countries so Bahrain should be seen in equivalent terms. Unless, of course you were arguing that all those races should be pulled too? It wasn't clear but I assumed the former.

[dayte]

Your argument is that most countries have some form of rights abuses, you can't stop races in those other countries so Bahrain should be seen in equivalent terms. Unless, of course you were arguing that all those races should be pulled too? It wasn't clear but I assumed the former.

If not, then.... will all be off the calendar.

All or nothing, you can't twist it ro your own preferences.

Also I'm watching this on iplayer, find it really odd to see Chinese people proudly and happily waving British and Spanish flags in their own country...

[Dudley]

All or nothing, you can't twist it ro your own preferences.

Why not?

[Petrousgyre]

All or nothing, you can't twist it ro your own preferences.

Right, follow your absolutist argument to its logical conclusions and hand Syria the Olympics.

You're saying can't differentiate between state sponsored murder, torture and persecution of medics on the one hand and a strict legal system, poverty, class systems and a questionable outlook on animal rights on the other - they're all morally equivalent? Is this seriously your argument?

[Sidewaysbob]

As bernie said, if they cancelled the race tomorrow, would the violence stop with it?

personally I think its a terrible track and they shouldn't be there at all in the first place.

[Dandy_Sephy]

I like how Rosberg was like "fuck it, that'll do". Makes a change from all the fingers and jumping around like a headless chicken that the others do.

[Petrousgyre]

As bernie said, if they cancelled the race tomorrow, would the violence stop with it?

Which in itself is an unbelievably fatuous argument.

'Bernie' also had this to say about Bahrain: "I know people who live there, and it's all very quiet and peaceful." Which is nice. I'm sure whatever bankers wife he knows, living in a palace in Adliya is representative of the majority Shia population currently getting dicked on by the regime.

[Sidewaysbob]

Getting angry on an internet forum isn't going to make much difference either.

[roskelld]

I like how Rosberg was like "fuck it, that'll do". Makes a change from all the fingers and jumping around like a headless chicken that the others do.

I'm pretty sure he was off to the mobile home for a massive wank.

[Petrousgyre]

Getting angry on an internet forum isn't going to make much difference either.

You going to make it a hat-trick?

Also, mildly animated at best.

[wev]

I like how Rosberg was like "fuck it, that'll do". Makes a change from all the fingers and jumping around like a headless chicken that the others do.

Reminded me of the footage of his Dad looking a bit overweight, wearing his shades and strolling down the pit lane

[JohnC]

As bernie said, if they cancelled the race tomorrow, would the violence stop with it?

What about confirming the race increasing the violence?

[zxcvbnm]

I kind of hope that if Bahrain does go ahead then protesters are able to use it somehow. A track invasion would be stupid and dangerous, but with a world wide audience they can get their message across.

[marsh]

I kind of hope that if Bahrain does go ahead then protesters are able to use it somehow. A track invasion would be stupid and dangerous, but with a world wide audience they can get their message across.

This. I fear that Bernie would turn off the feed though.

[dayte]

Is this seriously your argument?

Once again, no. Stop twisting shit, it's annoying. But it's clear that there are human rights abuses in every country in varying form, and if we are to take a firm stance on it - then let's do it, applicable to all countries. Not just cut and paste the extreme examples whilst saying all is peachy with the other ones, which are less extreme but have been going on for decades.

And I forgot to mention Britain in that list, complicity in allowing suspects to be tortured and interrogated in another country where there are no laws in place. Detention centres for undocumented child migrants - locked up with their adult counterparts whilst they await their case to be heard. Police beating up those in custody, or disproportionate force with protestors and even spectators (see Jody McIntyre, Ian Tomlinson). And of course shooting multiple times and killing unarmed men - Mark Duggan, Jean Charles de Menezes. It isn't just one off incidents here in 'peaceful' old Blighty.

One thing that Jake and Bernie touched upon in their interview, are the Bahraini Government using the F1 race as a showpiece to the world that everything's OK? And surely getting the world's media there is a great opportunity of finding out first hand what is really going on, how people are genuinely feeling on all sides? For every boycott that has worked and led to more openness and democracy - I'm thinking South Africa - there have been countless others that have made them more withdrawn and secluded from the outside world, leading to more unseen rights abuses. As we have seen with Libya and Syria - whether or not we intervene/boycott/whatever, chances are shit's going to be fucked up whatever the scenario.

Going away from this politics, I am really looking forward to the race tomorrow. Not only the Mercs but also Kobi and Kimi right behind, with the dark clouds looming. It seems the cool conditions favour Rosberg, so.... well I'm not saying it. And let's not forget Perez, the patient unassuming driver who just steadily makes his way up regardless of where he starts. I'm calling it - SAUBER 1-2