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Nick_L

By Nick_L
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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

Posted
Posted

Pity you missed the wikipedia bit about two years in a williams where he went out of his way to collide with aynthing or anyone within a stones throw of the car. A journeyman. See Patrese, Rubens or Massa for further reference :coffee:

Webber has always been a journeyman, he just lucked into a car that was far better than anything else on the grid. And still he screwed up. He has one trick. And that is his single lap pace, which enables him to outqualify his true performance. He is just like Trulli, but without the vineyard.

Button has always been in rubbish cars which he got to outperform. He has always dominated his team mate, including WDC Villeneuve and WDC Hamilton. Button is majestic to watch, such precision and smoothness. He is an incredible overtaker and makes less mistakes when doing so than just about any driver of recent times. And, of course, he is unparalleled in changeable conditions. The cleverest driver on the grid.

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Sidewaysbob

Sidewaysbob

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Posted

To be fair to Webber, the thinking has gone this year that he was given a new contract at the end of last year to be specifically the test driver in the team. All the new bits and bobs added to the cars were prototyped on Webbers car before being given to Vettel.

Webber was the test mule and thus avoided all of that bollocks from 2010 where he got grumpy that he wasn't given a faircrack of the whip. This year he was told "You're testing equipment or you can find something else Sunny Jim."

The win at the end was pathetic though, Vettel had to be told to move over, the tosser. ;)

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SMD

SMD

Posted
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Utter nonsense. He's out-performed him this season, when Lewis has been going through a lot of personal issues and distractions. Button regards Canada as his finest ever drive, and he's right; but I'd bet my life that Lewis would have won that race if both McLaren drivers had not collided.

Button is indeed great to watch, and I've become more and more a fan of his as this past season progressed, but he's not perfect - see him getting totally mugged by Alonso at Interlagos.

Hamilton wouldn't have beaten Button in Canada, not in the rain like that.

As for Brazil, didn't Button struggle with numerous problems during the race? I think he had to fuck around with his KERS a lot.

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kiroquai

kiroquai

Posted
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I personally believe that Hamilton's issues this year were actually mainly due to how well Jenson was doing, and perhaps a bit due to personal issues. Every time he made the odd slip (and there were many, sadly) Jenson always seemed to steal in and produce a great drive to steal Lewis' thunder completely. I think 2011 was Button's finest year by some margin. Back at the end of '09 people thought Lewis would bury him, but he's done brilliantly.

Plus I am biased towards Jenson, because he won the title for Brawn and thus won my mate a lot of performance bonuses in 2009, some of which went towards a whole load of alcohol to celebrate. Also, the way he reacted to Honda pulling out and the way he made sure he went to see the team really often and spoke to everyone really was great for them at the time. Even after he had concluded his McLaren deal he went to say goodbye and signed every single piece of merchandise that was thrust his way, posed for photographs, chatted away with people... pretty much everything a certain Brazilian driver didn't do.

I don't have a 'favourite' driver as such any longer, but JB is probably as close to one as I have.

EDIT: Captain, I suspect you want Japan 2007 and Monaco 2008 :sherlock:

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kiroquai

kiroquai

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Posted

I think Lewis is awesome too - I think some of my critical posts about him this year may have occasionally made some feel otherwise. He's had a difficult year but he is still a bloody exciting driver and if he gets a good car from the off next year I reckon he will be a strong challenger.

McLaren have been odd in the past few years, though. I think they are still doing their split design team method where one team kicks off the even year cars' projects and another kicks off the odd year cars' projects. The 2009 car was initially bad, but got pretty good as the year went on. The 2010 car was initially very good, but fell behind as the season progressed. The 2011 car started pretty well but definitely got a lot stronger from Suzuka onward. Just wish they'd even it all out and produce something that can fight Ferrari (well, one of them at least) and Red Bull throughout the whole season!

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marsh

marsh

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To be fair to Webber, the thinking has gone this year that he was given a new contract at the end of last year to be specifically the test driver in the team. All the new bits and bobs added to the cars were prototyped on Webbers car before being given to Vettel.

Webber was the test mule and thus avoided all of that bollocks from 2010 where he got grumpy that he wasn't given a faircrack of the whip. This year he was told "You're testing equipment or you can find something else Sunny Jim."

The win at the end was pathetic though, Vettel had to be told to move over, the tosser. ;)

So what your saying in a nutshell is that yes, he is a load of wank? I can only see him getting a crack at the title if he outscores vettel in the first six races by such a margin that the team have no option but to gift it to him.

Not that I'll know about it mind....

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Halkyon

Halkyon

Posted
Posted

I don't really have an opinion on who is better than who. In principle it doesn't matter unless you're an insecure caveman and in practice there are so many variables in play at any given time it's impossible to tell anyway. One thing I do like about Webber though is his speaking out against Bahrain. He's the best guy there in that respect which is far more important than who can drive a sodding car fast when you're in the public eye.

The designers and engineers are the smart ones who are constantly innovating, passing on technologies and materials to satellites and the like, I have far more respect for them than any driver.

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Dandy_Sephy

Dandy_Sephy

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And yet designing and building the best car means absolutely nothing if the driver can't make use of it. Red Bull built the best car last season, but if Vettel hand't run away with the title, we would be less appreciative of it. Webber certainly wasn't showing off the car to the best of it's ability. Respecting people like Newey is one thing, respecting them more than the drivers risking their lives to show off how great the car the engineers built seems a bit of an odd comment to make unless you are a vehicle engineering student

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Halkyon

Halkyon

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They choose to get in the cars and "risk their lives". It's a completely ego driven activity, Brundle often talks of the selfishness of the drivers.

I respect all the drivers because as you say they push the machines to the edge, but I don't feel the need to try and rank them.

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Halkyon

Halkyon

Posted
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It's a co-dependant relationship isn't it? I personally respect the intellect of the designers and engineers more than the ego and drive to take risks of the drivers though. That's all I'm really saying.

EDIT: 2000th POST :sherlock:

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SMD

SMD

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Er, I think you're forgetting Lewis' stunning drives at Silverstone and [somewhere I can't remember, lol!] from previous seasons during really bad wet conditions. Lewis is awesome in the wet, I'd say better than Jenson.

Oh and, Jenson's Kers issues were at Abu Dhabi, and yes he did do very well. :)

edit: I'll try and find out where that other great win in the wet was...

No, I meant last season in that car. Button seemed to be really in tune with the car's grip whereas Hamilton didn't look as comfortable. He comfortably outpaced Button in the dry when he had the speed.

McLaren really need to work on their reliability, though.

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marsh

marsh

Posted
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Hopefully - the guy deserves a seat somewhere. Some of his drives last season (Germany and Brazil in particular) were epic.

I am probably not the only person who's still not sold on Hulkenberg. Will be interesting to see how he gets on alongside di Resta.

I await brucie and his 'hulkenberg awesomeness' etc shortly.

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

Posted
Posted

AUTOSPORT TEAM PRINCIPALS' TOP TEN - 2011 RESULTS

1. Vettel 241 UP 1

2. Button 200 UP 4

3. Alonso 188 DOWN 2

4. Hamilton 122 DOWN 1

5. Rosberg 90 UP 2

6. Webber 70 DOWN 2

7. Di Resta 44 NEW ENTRY

8. Sutil 38 RE-ENTRY FROM 2009

9. Kovalainen 26 RE-ENTRY FROM 2008

10. Schumacher 23 NEW ENTRY

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djbhammer

djbhammer

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It would be an injustice if Sutil is not in F1 next season - I'm very surprised he has been replaced. I thought he had an excellent season.

I also like Alguersuari, he really came on this year and had some excellent points finishes. There are some very odd decisions going on. No doubt the money the driver can bring to the team is a factor.

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Dudley

Dudley

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To be honest I do buy STR's explanation of that one, if not the timing. If a driver has spent 3 years there, then he's not going to the big team, so why keep him?

If he's good enough he'll get another drive. tbh, if he can bring CESPA with him, he's perfect for HRT.

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kiroquai

kiroquai

Posted
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I pretty much agree with that. apart from Schumacher, who has failed as far as i'm concerned.

Maybe Sutil should be lower, i don't think he all that, he did what the car was capable of not a lot more.

See, I think of Rosberg this season much in the way you have described Sutil there. This season Schumacher's really given him a run for his money and beaten him much more often than 2010, and at no stage during the year (save the opening few laps at Spa and back in China) did I ever really think Rosberg was doing anything other than a pretty good job.

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mexos

mexos

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I'm undecided about Rosberg. He's a good points scorer at best. If you put him in the RB against Vettel I wouldn't expect much more than we got from Webber.

He's certainly no Number 1. (in the Alonso/Ham/Vet/But bracket.) TBH I'd put Sutil in the car before him :ph34r: - if commercial reasons didn't come in to it. With his flowing blonde locks Britney is an easier sell than a grumpy Sutil.

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