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The Formula 1 Thread

Nick_L

By Nick_L
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JPR

JPR

Posted
Posted

I didn't know about the first part of that, but one driver succesfully drafted into a Ferrari seat does not make a driver development program.

Ferrari aren't exactly alone in this, heard plenty of people questioning Red Bull's program, yes they've got Vettel but apart from him it's not really produced anyone spectacular. I do wonder how good is it to have lots of young drivers signed up to something which in all likelihood isn't going to pay off, for the simple fact that teams only have two seats and then there's limited numbers beyond that. I just imagine you'd be better off with just a few drivers and carefully managing their progress, as McLaren did with Hamilton and Ferrari with Massa. Guess these programs may provide funding that drivers couldn't get beforehand, maybe the way to judge them isn't just to focus on F1 but how they go on to perform in other disciplines.

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Sidewaysbob

Sidewaysbob

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I kind of agree with Ferrari here. Having testing session after say 8 of the GP through the year for rookies only would be fine. All the teams are at the tracks anyway, no one would miss anything and the tracks could charge a tenner and fill the stands for an extra day.

No expensive second unit testing teams needed for the smaller boys. the bigger lads might employ a second but there would be no actually need to do that. The rookies could learn how the teams operate, learn some of the tracks a bit better and get a good feel for the cars over a long period.

It would also keep the likes of Trulli on their toes with the though they could get fired for a better performing rookie at any moment.

I also agree that F1 has become an areo race these days

Having extra cars .. as privat teams would be no bad thing. Look at Torro Rosso now Redbull have won the championship :ph34r:

as for walking aways from F1 ... yeah, that's really going to happen, i can't really believe they expect anyone to take that sort of threat seriously at all these days.

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mexos

mexos

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Ferrari don't give a shit about rookies. They are just looking for reasons to support their crusade for in season testing. It's in season testing and 2 test teams running pretty much 24/7 round their own test facilities that handed Schumacher the equipment he could do the job in and win all those Ferrari championships. *

Ferrari would like to test and spend their way back to the top. But they can't because of the resource restriction agreement and a ban on in season testing. They can't use their muscle to bludgeon their way back to the top and there angry because of this. How dare upstarts such as Red Bull beat Ferrari by using their creativity and ingenuity!

*Oh yeah, and Bridgestone manufacturing the tyres for everyone to Ferrari's specifications. :ph34r: But thats another story.

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Cheeko

Cheeko

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Whatever the rules, someone will exploit something and use it to gain the advantage, Williams active suspension, Ferrari testing in the Schumacher era, Brawn double diffuser, Red Bull blown diffuser.

Maybe not to such a championship affecting level but even if they allowed a rookie test session you'd get a random team like Renault turning up with a car that a rookie is driving but has a secret door that Petrov climbs into so he can still drive the car within the guidelines.

The removal of refuelling is a classic, trying to make it safer and the same for everyone, but what happens is for sections of the race some cars intentionally ease off and it totally skews the last qualifying session due to running with race fuel setup, it's never straight forward is it.

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wev

wev

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Ferrari aren't exactly alone in this, heard plenty of people questioning Red Bull's program, yes they've got Vettel but apart from him it's not really produced anyone spectacular. I do wonder how good is it to have lots of young drivers signed up to something which in all likelihood isn't going to pay off, for the simple fact that teams only have two seats and then there's limited numbers beyond that. I just imagine you'd be better off with just a few drivers and carefully managing their progress, as McLaren did with Hamilton and Ferrari with Massa. Guess these programs may provide funding that drivers couldn't get beforehand, maybe the way to judge them isn't just to focus on F1 but how they go on to perform in other disciplines.

Red Bull have been using their driver program for far shorter a time period than Ferrari, they also filter their drivers out in different formula's and to other teams, see Ricciardo at HRT. Okay, they've only had one race winner, who is now a double word champion, but when its so hard to get a seat in F1 and keep it, never mind finding your way into a competetive car. Would Red Bull, and Vettel, have been so dominant if it weren't for their Newey designed car? We'll never know, but its no surprise that the feeling is there considering his track record at various teams.

You could say that Alguesuari is now starting to look like a Red Bull Driver Program success story.

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Dudley

Dudley

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Ferrari have not taken on a driver without at least one year of F1 experience since 1978. Only 33 years ago.

Yes? Doesn't mean they don't recognise the need to get them early. Perez is at Sauber because of them, maybe he won't work out but they have 6 more right behind him.

Ferrari have not taken on a driver without at least one year of F1 experience since 1978. Only 33 years ago.

That one worked out pretty well though didn't it?

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kiroquai

kiroquai

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That one worked out pretty well though didn't it?

Most certainly did! Had a bit of a sticky patch for the first half of this first year, but after that never looked back. Shame Ferrari then went on to give him red-painted tractors to drive in 1980 and 1981 when he really should have been kicking on and winning championships.

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Dom B

Dom B

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Ferrari don't give a shit about rookies. They are just looking for reasons to support their crusade for in season testing. It's in season testing and 2 test teams running pretty much 24/7 round their own test facilities that handed Schumacher the equipment he could do the job in and win all those Ferrari championships. *

Ferrari would like to test and spend their way back to the top. But they can't because of the resource restriction agreement and a ban on in season testing. They can't use their muscle to bludgeon their way back to the top and there angry because of this. How dare upstarts such as Red Bull beat Ferrari by using their creativity and ingenuity!

While I agree with you about Ferrari's motives, it doesn't necessarily mean some limited in-season testing is a fundamentally bad idea. It is ridiculous (and arguably dangerous) that rookies have to jump straight into races with no experience - it makes them and the sport look incompetent and just preserves the status quo of current drivers. People like Trulli, Barichello etc. I just feel something should be done to allow the teams to take an educated punt on fresh talent, regardless of how unlikely Ferrari is to be one of those teams. Currently the only drivers coming in are those that bring so much cash that talent is irrelevent.

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RFT

RFT

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I'm in favour of the "monday after the race" test idea. I don't think it'll benefit Ferrari, or anyone else, unduly - what benefitted Ferrari was being able to test so much more than the other teams because of having Fiorano and a basically unlimited budget.

Adding on a few post-race test days would allow teams to evaluate young drivers, test new parts without it turning into the old testing arms race.

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Meers

Meers

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Coming back on Bahrain GP - are you all mad? It's a fantastic track layout. Better than all those bloody street circuits that seem to become a trend these days. Can't even look through a turn because the track side boarding is in the way.

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kiroquai

kiroquai

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Posted

That's the challenge of street circuits you crazy Dutchman :blah:

Bahrain isn't the worst circuit in the world... it's just a shame that the location and the complete lack of local interest in the event make it seem completely soulless. It's the embodiment of what people think Bernie has been turning F1 into.

EDIT: Or, what Bob said.

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JPR

JPR

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The layout is a flat and wide piece of tarmac in a desert, nothing inspiring to watch. It's also a layout that doesn't produce very exciting racing, Hungary is pretty interesting to drive on a game but doesn't stop it producing poor races generally and until Valencia came along was the race I most wanted to see dropped.

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Shimmyhill

Shimmyhill

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This isn't F1, but the Richard Burns Foundation have released the below video to tie in with the tenth anniversary of Richard winning the WRC, and hopefully spread the word about the foundation's work too.

As a warning, it does feature a few photos of Richard whilst he was quite ill so it's pretty difficult viewing.

Amazing that it's been ten years since that all happened.

Very moving :(

I tried to order a t-shirt but the crappy website doesn't seem to function in safari :angry:

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Dudley

Dudley

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While I agree with you about Ferrari's motives, it doesn't necessarily mean some limited in-season testing is a fundamentally bad idea. It is ridiculous (and arguably dangerous) that rookies have to jump straight into races with no experience - it makes them and the sport look incompetent and just preserves the status quo of current drivers. People like Trulli, Barichello etc. I just feel something should be done to allow the teams to take an educated punt on fresh talent, regardless of how unlikely Ferrari is to be one of those teams. Currently the only drivers coming in are those that bring so much cash that talent is irrelevent.

There's also another important point. Testing is a great ad for F1. It used to be free until Silverstone got greedy but it's still the only cost effective way to see a lot of F1 cars running and several of my friends who would never shell out for a grand prix came with me to testing sessions and had a great time.

If it wasn't for the Renault World Series (and even that doesn't visit the UK next year) there are friends of mine who would never have seen an F1 car at speed. And to a man or woman, as soon as you see an F1 car tip into Copse at impossible speeds they've got why they're special.

So quite apart from all the reasons it's good for drivers and teams, it's a long term investment in fans.

The layout is a flat and wide piece of tarmac in a desert, nothing inspiring to watch. It's also a layout that doesn't produce very exciting racing, Hungary is pretty interesting to drive on a game but doesn't stop it producing poor races generally and until Valencia came along was the race I most wanted to see dropped.

It's not flat. There's quite a spectator friendly hilliness about the place if you're actually there.

Less flat than say, Silverstone for example.

Everything else you say is basically true. It's out in the middle of nowhere even for Bahrain.

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Monbee

Monbee

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The part after the first 2 corners is pretty tricky, like a mini roller coaster ride.

But yeah, it wouldn't hurt for them to put a few more multicoloured buildings and a golf course next to the track.

Or maybe a fishmarket, I don't think anywhere else has one of those.

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Dr Slotter

Dr Slotter

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Press release (source):

Proton, Group Lotus, 1Malaysia Racing Team and its owner Tony Fernandes are delighted to announce that the legal dispute in the English Courts relating to the "LOTUS" and "TEAM LOTUS" brands has now ended amicably with the parties agreeing settlement terms earlier this month.

The terms of the settlement are confidential but the deal sees the "LOTUS" brand reunited under the sole ownership of Group Lotus. This includes the rights to the "LOTUS" and "TEAM LOTUS" names in Formula 1 motor racing.

1MRT will race in the 2012 Formula 1 season under the name "CATERHAM F1 TEAM" and will use a "CATERHAM" chassis.

The deal also sees a working relationship established between the parties and they will work together on future projects in the automotive field.

Group Lotus Chief Executive Officer Dany Bahar: "On behalf of Group Lotus and Proton I would like to express how pleased we are that this matter is finally closed and we can now focus on looking forward to the future.

"We understand that this has been a very difficult and confusing time for the fans of the sport and the Lotus brand so we are glad to have reached a clear resolution on this important matter - I would like to take this opportunity to thank our fans for their continued support, it means everything to us."

Riad Asmat, Group CEO: "We are proud of what we have achieved by bringing the Team Lotus name back to Formula One when many tried and although we are sad to say goodbye to Team Lotus we are excited about owning our own future and being in control of our own destiny. Now we have no one to be compared to. We make our own history and we will remain green and yellow.

"Now we look forward to an exciting future racing under our new team name of Caterham F1 Team. Please continue to support our very special spirit of never say die and support us on the track as we move up the field and demonstrate that the good do win."

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