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Nick_L

By Nick_L
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JPR

JPR

Posted
Posted

Massatear.gif on the red button. I think he's gone over the edge to be quite honest, he clearly thinks Hamilton is doing this all on purpose.

and Hamilton seems to think that everyone is against him, I think it's an unfortunate set of circumstances for both drivers. Neither driver seems to be in a good place, then on top of that they're regularly clashing which brings lots of media pressure and questioning. I think both drivers need to make changes and probably most importantly need a break and to get away from the whole F1 bubble for a bit.

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merman

merman

Posted
Posted

Half assed champagne spraying!

The drivers were discussing whether it was appropriate to celebrate, in light of the Dan Wheldon and Simoncelli deaths. Good to see the tribute before the race.

Bahrain flags being flown by the marshals.

Quite a few of the marshals were from Bahrain, according to DC.

It's certainly a good circuit, better than some of the other recent additions to the calendar.

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Shimmyhill

Shimmyhill

Posted
Posted

Vettel is easily as good as Alonso or Button. What else can he be expected to do? He smashed quali every time, dominates races and overtakes when he needs to. He's made like one mistake this entire season.

He's going down as an all time great.

Not a chance he is as good as Alonso or Button, nor Lewis for that matter - over time he may get to their level but he is currently making the most of the car in this phase of the rules. THat Ferrari has to be knocking on 1-2 sec a lap slower than the Redbull yet Alonso spanks it to within an inch of its life, massively outperforming the car, Button is out driving the Mclaren and put him in the same air as Vettel and he beats him in a significantly slower car.

Take today, Vettel was 7/10 quicker on his fastest lap than Alonso/Button and even Webber was half a sec quicker, that car is in a different league to the Ferrari and Mclaren and while that isn't Vettels fault it is the factor that holds him back from being considered an all time great - time will tell on that one and it is much like the respect Button has earned from winning a championship in a vastly superior car to earning respect as a great driver in a car that isn't the class of the field and agains a 'quicker' team mate.

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

Posted
Posted

Vettel is easily as good as Alonso or Button. What else can he be expected to do? He smashed quali every time, dominates races and overtakes when he needs to. He's made like one mistake this entire season.

He's going down as an all time great.

Not really.

Adrian Newey is winning the races.

Vettel is very weak in many areas of a driver's craft. He is about as good as a pre accident Massa. And a lot better than he was last year.

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mexos

mexos

Posted
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All if this looking for reasons why Vettel isn't one of the best makes me laugh. He's hardly been here 5 minutes! Give him a chance.

To say he's not up there with the best of 2011 is absurd. Is he an all time great? Undisputably he's certainly on the way. The next test will come when his car turns out to be a dog, how he reacts. Is he the type of driver who can push a car to win when it has no right too? I don't know, and nether does anyone else. Time will tell. He's already done it once before. I'd bet he's perfectly capable of doing it many times over.

The nonsense about him not being able to race or overtake has been well and truly put to bed this year, maybe next year he'll get his chance to prove (not that he needs to) to the armchair pundits he's a great by shining in a crap car.

But then of course that's still not enough. Because even if he does all that, and continues to butt fuck webber week in week out, well, it's webber isn't it. A better team mate would have fucked webber even harder and won by a bigger margin. And so it goes on. Forever.

He could be sitting on 5 or 6 world championships and still this crap would get peddled out. It's the car, he can't race, he can't overtake blah blah blah. What the fuck ever.

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Shimmyhill

Shimmyhill

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He edged Webber last year and webber can't drive this years car due to tyres/off throttle exhaust - i don't think its a good benchmark as Webber has stuck the same car faster than Vettel and we are all happy to say webber is a very average driver, it reinforces the doubt over Vettel when a very average driver on occasion has been faster in the same car and last season in reality should have taken the championship.....

The overtaking hasn't been put to bed, a half decent pass over Alonso is hardly proving the great overtaking he can do, its a quicker car - look at the number of passes people like Button, Alonso and Schumacher make race in race out and Vettel can't compare with them even last year when he wasn't out front all the time - that again is where the doubt is.

This season he has managed the class car of the field amazingly well but as someone else has said Alonso has probably done the most to prove he is the class of the field this year, i can't stick Ferrari or generally Alonso but i am warming to him enormously this season :o

With a bit of luck the RB next year will be a dog and we can see Vettel for what he is, if he does outdrive the car i will be the first on here to heap praise on him as he is a great chap, cracking driver and quite possibly a future great of the sport.

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morcs

morcs

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I dare say even the best F1 drivers and associates would be unable/unwilling to unanimously say whether Vettel is a better driver than X or Y. So I don't know what your link to some Pistonheads posters is meant to prove Bruce. The fact is it doesn't matter. Formula 1 is a team sport, what decides who wins is the sum of the whole, and there's no argument there: Vettel + Red Bull are currently the best.

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

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He edged Webber last year and webber can't drive this years car due to tyres/off throttle exhaust - i don't think its a good benchmark as Webber has stuck the same car faster than Vettel and we are all happy to say webber is a very average driver, it reinforces the doubt over Vettel when a very average driver on occasion has been faster in the same car and last season in reality should have taken the championship.....

The overtaking hasn't been put to bed, a half decent pass over Alonso is hardly proving the great overtaking he can do, its a quicker car - look at the number of passes people like Button, Alonso and Schumacher make race in race out and Vettel can't compare with them even last year when he wasn't out front all the time - that again is where the doubt is.

This season he has managed the class car of the field amazingly well but as someone else has said Alonso has probably done the most to prove he is the class of the field this year, i can't stick Ferrari or generally Alonso but i am warming to him enormously this season :o

With a bit of luck the RB next year will be a dog and we can see Vettel for what he is, if he does outdrive the car i will be the first on here to heap praise on him as he is a great chap, cracking driver and quite possibly a future great of the sport.

QFA.

Vettel makes one overtake in Italy and suddenly he is the demon overtaker. I don't think so.

He has yet to prove the broad range of ability needed to be merely good, never mind a great. Button,driving a far inferior car, had him for breakfast in Canada.

Alonso and Button are the class of the field just now.

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mexos

mexos

Posted
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QFA.

Vettel makes one overtake in Italy and suddenly he is the demon overtaker.

Who said that? Not sure I read anyone saying that. He has however done enough to prove he can overtake. Demon overtaker? Who the hell knows? He's always bloody first.

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

Posted
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Vettel reminds me very much of Jochen Rindt in 1970.

A reasonable driver was suddenly given a car (the Lotus 72) that outperformed everything else on the grid and allowed him to outperform anything he had done before. He won four consecutive races, which was unheard of in those days. In his whole career before that he had only won 2 races, despite being in a Lotus 49.

The Lotus 72 was so far advanced that Lotus continued to use it till 1975.

Newey is the new Chapman.

Put Vettel in a Force India and I can't see him beating Sutil.

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myoozikk

myoozikk

Posted
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Does anyone else think Massa won't have a seat at Ferrari next season? Putting aside the Hamilton stuff, ruining his suspension twice in 1 weekend doing the same thing when no other driver did is just not good. I think the pressures got to him & the team will probably get rid?

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JPR

JPR

Posted
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I think he'll still be at Ferrari next season, for a start I don't think they'd dump him like that, as said previously it's not Enzo's Ferrari anymore. I imagine there's plans in place or they're working on them to get a replacement in 2013 and for the sake of a season it's not worth acting hastily and throwing them out. I guess there's always a possibility of trying to do a driver swap if they've already identified who they want, but I wouldn't complain if he does stay another season, the other guy is Alonso after all.

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Bruciebabie

Bruciebabie

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Does anyone else think Massa won't have a seat at Ferrari next season? Putting aside the Hamilton stuff, ruining his suspension twice in 1 weekend doing the same thing when no other driver did is just not good. I think the pressures got to him & the team will probably get rid?

It is incredibly sad.

The brain damage from his accident just isn't going away very quickly.

Will he ever get his mojo back?

There was a time when he was the fastest driver in F1. Giving Kimi a hard time, which takes some doing.

Ferrari, of all the teams, are interested in the constructors over the drivers championship. So they need a second driver who scores lots of points.

We all know it was destined to be Kubica

So who will score more points over a season than Massa? Button, obviously, was in the frame but has decided he likes McLaren too much. Webber is a non starter. Hamilton would be interesting and Alonso has said that he would like that. Rosberg might be a good choice. Who else has the standing and ability?

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Halkyon

Halkyon

Posted
Posted

I think Shimmyhill and Brucie (omg) have the right of it. All we can reliably say about Vettel is that he is good at managing the fastest car in the field, we have little evidence of anything else so it's a bit premature to say he's one of the best ever drivers or anything along those lines. He might be, but I don't believe you can prove that he is at this point in time because, as I said, all we've really seen is him winning in a faster car. We'll have to see him pushing like crazy like a Button this year in a car that isn't a half second quicker on every track or fighting against an Alonso in the same team before we can reasonably say there is evidence of him being "amazing" or an all time great.

The last bit of interest left this year is the driver market though! I too think Massa needs to go, it's sad now that he's acting unprofessionally as well as driving clumsily.

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Velse

Velse

Posted
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Except di Ressa hammered Vettel in F3.

How is this worthy of a neg? This is utterly pathetic. It is a fact, plain and simple, that Di Resta destroyed Vettel in F3. Let's not turn this thread into the shitfest that is the Politics thread.

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morcs

morcs

Posted
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Bruce why do you think Red Bull employ Vettel rather than someone like Sutil or Di Resta who you've suggested would be faster (but much much cheaper)?

Is it the Freemasons again?

If you think about it - what you're arguing is that you know better than the best F1 team in the world who the best driver for them is.

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morcs

morcs

Posted
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How is this worthy of a neg? This is utterly pathetic. It is a fact, plain and simple, that Di Resta destroyed Vettel in F3. Let's not turn this thread into the shitfest that is the Politics thread.

It's not the statment itself, but the pointless cherry-picked facts to back up an irrelevant argument. You could come up with similar stats for any driver and carry on arguing all day.

P.S. I didn't do the negging.

Obviously what people should do is just ignore it, but Bruce is awesome!

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