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Nick_L

By Nick_L
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ryodi

ryodi

Posted
Posted

How does Hamilton compare to other drivers when it comes to accident? I know this season he's got a reputation for being reckless and always ending up at the stewards but I recall that in Coulthard's last season he always seemed to be crashing into other drivers and didn't get anywhere near as much flak.

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wev

wev

Posted
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Oh indeed, but it's all so sterile now. An era as such that will never be repeated, and that's across all forms of motorsport.

Which made me think, the cobblers car didn't slow down that much before spanking the wall at the weekend? Assuming he still had some brakes at the rear of the car?

There was some really heavy skid marks behind his car, (from his tyres ;) ) so I assume his brakes were still working.

Since 1965 Jackie has attended most f1 grand prix. In that time there can be very few people who have attended more. During that time he has known all the drivers and all the team principals personally. He still travels over 300,000 miles a year.

As an F1 racer he achieved 43 podiums from 99 starts (in an era when the cars were very unreliable)and won the WDC three times, coming second twice.

He also set up and ran his own F1 team, Stewart Grand Prix (which became Red Bull Racing), in 1997, so has an intimate understanding of modern era cars.

I would suggest that there is more F1 knowledge in his nail clippings than there is in the whole of this forum.

See:

I'm sure all that's true but it doesn't change that he's made a fundamental miscalculation with that statement.

Exactly, as much experience as Stewart has, he retired the same day one of his best friends died (the retirement wasn't as a result of the death, he'd decided to step down before that), he has no experience of what its like as a modern day F1 driver, he has no proper understanding of how the safety measures in F1 now change the mindset of the people competing in the sport.

Although I do think someone needs a quiet word in Hamilton's ear, some times its like he's just watched the Japanese Grand Prix races between Prost and Senna and decided that the latter is how he's going to approach every race and every over taking opportunity.

In regards to Stewart setting up his own team and having an understanding to modern day F1 cars due to that, a 1997 GP will be very different to a 2011 car, the accident Schumacher had yesterday was very similar to the one he had at Silverstone in 1999, the difference being that safety standards both on the track and in the car enabled Schumacher to walk around largely unscathed where as in 99 he broke his leg/s.

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SharkyOB

SharkyOB

Posted
Posted

Although I do think someone needs a quiet word in Hamilton's ear, some times its like he's just watched the Japanese Grand Prix races between Prost and Senna and decided that the latter is how he's going to approach every race and every over taking opportunity.

I think it's impossible for Hamilton to win at the moment; he gets stuck behind Schumacher at Monza and the team and various observers say he's not aggressive enough and that they want to see the old Lewis back. Next race he makes a mistake while being aggressive and he gets a load of flak for that too.

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Sidewaysbob

Sidewaysbob

Posted
Posted

I don't think its even that big a mistake. Massa brakes early and he locks up, tries to undercut massa and clips the rear tire. It's what happens in motor racing all the time. Schumacher drove in the back of a car on the straight and got a slap wrist.

There is just no consistancy from the FIA when it come to Lewis.

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kiroquai

kiroquai

Posted
Posted

I do appreciate that Jackie has a right to an opinion on danger (one of the main reasons, other than his safety campaign, being what he went through with the chap in Wev's avatar, which is awesome incidentally), but at the some point I'd agree that the sport is very different these days. Same with Lauda; I have utmost respect for him given what he went through, but these days drivers can afford more contact and wheel-to-wheel than they could in those days.

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wev

wev

Posted
Posted

I forgot to add that Jackie works as a driver coach at the very top level and many F1 drivers have improved under his direction.

Different horses for different courses etc.

I too agree it was a nothing incident and out of all the mistakes Hamilton's made on the circuit this season it's probably the least important and least "mindless". I absolutely hate how he's criticised for his race in Monza and then criticised when he gives those critics exactly what they want. He's consistently praised for being "the last of the late breakers" and then slagged off when it catches him out which is pretty much what happened this weekend.

And I know someone will come along and state I'm a Hamilton/McLaren fanboy, actually I'm not, I don't even have an actual favourite driver (although if pushed I do enjoy watching Kobayashi) or team and just enjoy the sport as a whole.

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Sidewaysbob

Sidewaysbob

Posted
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No so much that, but the way F1 cars are driven now is totally different to the days of Lauda and especially Stewart.

The electronics alone is light years ahead, driver fitness, aerodynamics have all changed out of recognision since those days and it annoys me when those two old fools turn up and say how much harder it was in their day and they could have died at any moment and that gives then the right to pontificate about drivers making silly mistkaes now.

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roskelld

roskelld

Posted
Posted

Just watching The F1 Forum and my feelings about Stefano's comments over the Lewis and Massa incident are similar to what was posted on the previous page. I didn't feel much support or love for Massa in that, Stefano sort of made a half arsed effort to defend Massa, but there was an undercurrent of 'Hamilton still beat him in the end'. Massa got back to the pits waaaay before Hamilton did, but somehow finished a good number of places behind him without the drive through penalty that Lewis also faced. Stefano's support didn't reflect the support that Martin gave Lewis in the interview following it.

I'm wondering if Ferrari are thinking about a change from a one man team. If they're not in the fight for the championship driver spot, then they need to be in the fight for the constructors, and one driver teams don't win that. Not when you have competitors like Redbull and McLaren. They need to look at a stronger driver who can respectfully trouble Alonso. They need to start seeing two of their drivers regularly take the podium, preferably at the same time. Massa can't give that to them.

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roskelld

roskelld

Posted
Posted

The penalty to Lewis has to reflect the fact he made Massa lose loads of time.

It's not about the penalty though, that's the FIA's thoughts on the incident. The stand out moment is when Massa's boss doesn't back him up and offer him full support. Massa had no excuse for ending up so far behind Lewis at the end of the race. He's not good enough a driver for Ferrari.

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McCoy

McCoy

Posted
Posted

Who would replace Massa then? Part of me would like to see what Schumi can do in a fast car.

Realistically Di Resta has looks good and Kubi would be an interesting punt. Raik has made sounds about coming back, could he do any worse than Massa? Such a shame about Kubica, he was one of the standout drivers of the future imo.

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exwhyzed

exwhyzed

Posted
Posted

Massa lost loads of time without any help from Lewis. Having to pit and have a new nose is punishment enough. The only consistency in the fia is the constant bitch slapping handed out to Lewis.

So because Massa is slower than Lewis it doesn't matter he was forced into a pit stop? Even Whitmarsh said had the collision happened the other way around he'd expect Massa to get a penalty.

Who would replace Massa then? Part of me would like to see what Schumi can do in a fast car.

Realistically Di Resta has looks good and Kubi would be an interesting punt. Raik has made sounds about coming back, could he do any worse than Massa? Such a shame about Kubica, he was one of the standout drivers of the future imo.

Alonso will have someone who'll play bitch so that would rule out Di Resta, MSC, Kubica and Kimi for me. Someone like Sutil or Perez might be a good shout.

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kiroquai

kiroquai

Posted
Posted

Regarding Perez, I think his going off the boil has somewhat something to do with the team in general - I think Sauber are falling behind on development. Kobayashi's not been terribly great either recently and if anything Perez has started outperforming him more often, but Sauber are further back than they were so it's not quite as noticeable.

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JPR

JPR

Posted
Posted

I think there's more chance of the Ice Cream getting the drive than Kimi. I'd really like to see Button get it, I could see him fitting well and he's coped fine with Hamilton, not that it's likely to happen, more realistically I think Di Resta would be my choice after another season in the FI.

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The Bag

The Bag

Posted
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So because Massa is slower than Lewis it doesn't matter he was forced into a pit stop? Even Whitmarsh said had the collision happened the other way around he'd expect Massa to get a penalty.

And he also stated that's because he's biased. A slow lap and a pit stop before the half way point didn't ruin Massa's race, how he performed after it did.

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JPR

JPR

Posted
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Only reason I don't see di Resta getting it is that he is currently 'owned' by Mercedes, so I am guessing they'll have first option on him to replace the Schue in 2013 if he retires.

That is where I realistically see him ending up, not sure who I'd want after him.

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Sidewaysbob

Sidewaysbob

Posted
Posted

Di Resta is a Mercedes man through and through, he's going to get Mickeys seat next year or 2013 when the new engine rule comes in.

I'm pretty sure that Perez is going to get the Ferrari seat, which to me is odd as i don't think he's any better than Massa.

As an outside bet, Maldonardo has a LOT of money behind him and can drive in a straight line. There is always Hulkenburg who probably going to get Sutils seat at Force India when he goes to Williams to replace Barrichello.

I think Ferrari are going to keep Massa for another year, why else would Webber sign up to Redbull for just one more year, Ferrari don't like taking rookie drivers and a free Webber would be more desirable than Perez. though the amount of whining Alonso and Webber could do in one team it could hit critical resonance and blow the world apart. :blink:

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mexos

mexos

Posted
Posted

I'm pretty sure that Perez is going to get the Ferrari seat, which to me is odd as i don't think he's any better than Massa.

Agreed. He's been a cert for a while.

As an outside bet, Maldonardo has a LOT of money behind him and can drive in a straight line.

Unless he's at Spa. :coffee:

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