Guillermo Del Toro's 'Pan's Labyrinth'

[Nathan Wind]

It's fantastic - easily one of my favourite films of the past few years. Does anyone know if it'll be getting an HD disc release? I can't find any information about it...

[lordcookie]

November 12th for both HD-DVD and Blu Ray versions in the UK. I believe the French get it slightly earlier.

[Nathan Wind]

Cheers Cookie, that's brilliant news.

[Phelan]

Watched it with the girlfriend the other night and didn't even finish it. Didn't enjoy it in the slightest.

Yes I know I'm dead inside.

[Phelan]

No I watched Transformers in full brain switched off entertainment mode...not the second coming.

I enjoyed it for what it was. A fun silly movie about big robots smashing the shit out of each other.

Wheras when it came to Pan's Labyrinth I simply didn't enjoy it.

I can probably explain why. The scene where the captain smashes the guy in the face repeatedly reminded me of my uncle getting beaten to death. After that I simply couldn't watch the movie.

I get the point of it all, but I don't enjoy scenes like that.

I watch movies to be entertained and to get away from the real world. That scene for me brought the real world flooding back in. So I switched it off.

[Davros sock drawer]

It's a nasty scene. Stuff like that tends to stay with me as it is, and if you can relate it to a personal experience then so much the worse. It's a magical film in my opinion, but if something upsets you than I would never try to argue you'd missed out.

[Distinct muttering]

My uncle was electrocuted by a toaster, which severely affected my enjoyment of Transformers

Pans Labyrinth on the other hand was amazing, I really loved it. Its doing the rounds just now on Film Four if anyone hasn't seen it, they tend to repeat things a lot so it should be back on soon.

Now I need to pick up the devils backbone...

[Coltrane]

Now I need to pick up the devils backbone...

Make sure you do. It's very good. Really creepy as well..

[Klatrymadon]

Got this for my dad for Christmas. I love it when selfish purchases can actually go undetected. I almost got him Contra 4.

Anyway, boss film. I think I was expecting too much fantasy from it, though, 'cos I was a bit dissatisfied by the way in which the fantastic places/elements weren't necessarily presented as 'solid' and real. That's not a complaint, though - just an arbitrary assumption I'd made. Had no idea about the post-Spanish Civil War plot before watching it.

The blind monster was pure video game fare, but I guess that was everyone else's favourite bit too.

[Lorfarius]

Serious question. What did everyone find so appealing about this film? I watched it recently and just didnt get it. Just seemed a bit...meh. I wouldnt say it was a bad film but its certainly no second coming.

[Couch Corpse]

In fairness to Phelan he said he didn't enjoy it for personal reasons, not that it was a bad movie.

[Guest]

As with all good fantasy stories, you're left with a massive question mark over whether the main protagonist was just imagining it all.

come on, really? i thought it was pretty obvious.

[Klatrymadon]

I thought Vidal's inability to see the faun was a suggestion of his general out-of-touch soullessness (or what have you), rather than an indication that Ofelia was inventing it all.

[Monkeyspill]

Oooh I want to watch this again now

I interpreted it as all in her imagination to escape brutal reality. It was a very brutal film.

[JohnC]

Well, all that stuff was her on her own. The bit I mentioned was the only bit where the 'fantasy' had an impact on another character that couldn't be explained any other way.

There was a guard outside her door, but she got out of there. So how did she got out if not by using the chalk to draw a new door? I think that is also a valid one for it not being just her imagination.

[lordcookie]

But even the shifting labyrinth isn't proof of the fantasy elements being real. The entire film is from Ofelia's viewpoint so just because we see the labyrinth move does not mean it did, all we know is that Vidal got lost momentarily in the labyrinth. It is easy to argue both corners of whether it was real or all in Ofelia's head which is why the film works so well.

[Guest]

I interpreted it as all in her imagination to escape brutal reality. It was a very brutal film.

that's exactly how i saw it.

she hated the captain so imagined finding a way to be back with her real dad.

the faun's head was carved into her mum's bed and it was above the doors and in a few other places, so her imagination worked it into her dreams. the bit where she chalks the door into the ceiling and comes out on the bedroom floor and the eyeless dude was banging and scratching after her was after her mum had told her that old houses creak and make noises. the captain got to the walls just after they'd stopped moving, so i'm guessing he'd just got lost, plus when he did catch up with her he couldn't see the faun.

i'm sure if i thought about it there are plenty more bits which lead me to believe she was just trying to escape her reality.

brilliant film though. i'll watch it again soon and look at it from a different point of view.

[moosegrinder]

Brilliant film, but fuck me it's grim.

[Professor_k]

On 4 now, incase anyone missed the million adverts for it.

[mr_woo]

Absolutely brilliant film and one of my favourite films ever this, had such an impact on me when I saw it at the cinema and even still when I watched it on dvd/hd-dvd.

Saw the scene with

the bottle

there now on chan 4 and it's still fucking horrific.

It does have one of the most satisfying endings in terms of

the bad guy getting killed, especially when the captains told 'he'll never know your name' and then the mother fuckers shot

I took it as all being real too, simply because I just wanted to believe that something good actually happened amongst all the grimness.

[Liamness]

It is easy to argue both corners of whether it was real or all in Ofelia's head which is why the film works so well.

Yes. I love that it is open to interpretation. My opinion is that she has a wonderful imagination, and creates a place where she can be with her mother and father. For me, it makes the ending bittersweet, but it doesn't change the reality of what has happened.

Brilliant film. My second watching, I got even more emotional than the first time. To those talking about it being grim/violent, I think that's necessary because it you can't soften The Spanish Civil War without losing authenticity, can you? The General is such a detestable man because of what we see he is capable of. I don't think the film would work so well unless everyone in the audience wanted him dead, really.

[Made of Ghosts]

I don't remember if I've said this before but I think

the shot of Ofelia dying at the start suggests that the whole film is her retconning her experiences in order to believe she's going to a better place.

[Liamness]

Oooh that's quite smart.

[Tofu]

However, its all real not something she created even the director confirmed it.

[mr_woo]

However, its all real not something she created even the director confirmed it.

Yeah Del Toro did say that though he obviously did leave it open on purpose otherwise he would have made it really clear. I really like it's open interpretation and that's what makes it as good as it is.

[Tofu]

Plus there are obvious clues he's scattered which if you picked up on watching implies it wasn't some escape for her. Plus the director loves fairy tales and the ending is a great fairy tale ending.

[Rudi von Starnberg]

I think there are certain things that just can't be explained without accepting the fairytale aspects of the story. Like how Ofelia escapes her heavily guarded room towards the end if she doesn't really use the magic chalk to draw a doorway on the wall.

[Reynard]

Taken from an interview:

"Interviewer: I'm glad to hear you say that. This is the dispute going on among people who have seen your film. Was Ofelia in her fantasy world? Was it a real world? I keep saying such questions pose a false dichotomy.

Del Toro: Yes, of course. And it's intimate. If the movie works as a piece of storytelling, as a piece of artistic creation, it should tell something different to everyone. It should be a matter of personal discussion. Now objectively, the way I structured it, there are three clues in the movie that tell you where I stand. I stand in that it's real. The most important clues are the flower at the end, and the fact that there's no way other than the chalk door to get from the attic to the Captain's office.

Interviewer: Yes, and again referring back to the dynamic of their dyad, Mercedes notices the chalk door; they aren't just in Ofelia's imagination.

Del Toro: Objectively, those two clues tell you it's real. The third clue is she's running away from her stepfather, she reaches a dead end, by the time he shows up she's not there. Because the walls open for her. So sorry, there are clues that tell you where I stand and I stand by the fantasy. Those are objective things if you want. The film is a Rorschach test of where people stand."

Source.

[Liamness]

Yeah, I googled and found that. It's interesting what he says about the Rorschach test; I guess for him it's more important what you see in the film than what the film is 'supposed' to mean. When he says "I stand in that it's real", he is saying that's just his opinion, even though he made the film.

[hughes]

Given that the film started at 9pm last night, does that mean the bottle scene was on tv at like twenty past nine?

Wonderful film. I remember discussing it with my sister and her not believing me when I said it was the most violent film I've seen. Sure I've seen films with higher body counts (hard boiled springs to mind) but it is just so brutal in this.

I echo the sentiments of being surprised it's not an 18.