Owning A Game Store

[Hello Goaty ♥]

My Own Games shop you say?

some of the main things I'd have in there would be:

" Zoned Areas " - Kids Zone , Teen Zone , Adult Zone.

this way, I could stick all the Barbie games in one area, Need For Speed in another, and Call Of Duty 2 et. all in another.

Video Games Music CD, Books and Strategy guides. - I'd try and have a WHsmiths type area away from the hustle & bustle of the games shop, for the geeks to get their magazines and other wank material. - Sod the Cafe lark. There'd be no more than a Max Pax machine in there

2nd hand titles... hmm. Hard to manage i'd say.

I think i would attempt some kind of a " Swap Shop " where I take a small fee for handling the Swap.

Renting games.. Would I be allowed to do this?

I wouldn't actually sell Imports. However.. I'd have some Import machines running the Big titles, so that a buzz can be created leading up to a UK release.

ie- I'd have a PS3 running in my store as soon as they were available in Japan.

that kind of shit.

[Liquid Myth]

Arcade games sound like an excellent idea, so long as they're not the typical Time Crisis 3/DDR/Sniper Scope machines that are just about everywhere. I'd have a seperate floor for that kind of thing (the arcades), so as not to disrupt the "normal" shoppers.

[Quexex]

I've always thought a games shop + arcade + cafe (for teh ladies ) would be really cool. However, where you have a DDR leaning on the PS2 I'd have a couple of arcade fighting games with the console version and arcade sticks available to buy, maybe even japanese books and magazines as well. The list of potential games related stock is enormous if you import from japan you could get gatchas - trading cards - etc.

Frankly it's good time to do this new systems mean more interest in import and I think CEX haxe stopped doing import stuff now as well which cuts down the competition.

Cheers

Quexex

[JoeK]

As a former shop owner who found out many things the hard way...

>ie don't have a ridicous wide range of games ie every game for PS2 or >whatever. Have plenty of games you can sell ie GTA, Halo, Fifa and don't sell >games like Barbie's horse riding or Crazy Frog Racer. You need a good selection >of quality games and game that sell to EA/mass market chavs.

The only reason you wouldn't stock barbie is because you can ebay them for a vey good rate. Barbie sells - along with the mary king horse riding games etc, it's doing the same Job ninty do with the Ds.......... Remember ps2 outsells all other formats, yes it's not the kind of shop you may want to work in (you may want somethig thats cool) but it's profitable and lots of the kids games can be picked up elsewhere for peanuts. And remember, most shops don't stock psone stuff now but there's still a demand so cherry pick the kids titles to stock or just buy in the rare stuff and fuck it out on ebay.

>Also be careful when doing 2nd hand games.

Well you need to prey on the poor and defensless, you need to buy games for cash for a pss take amount and then either sell them in the shop at an inflated amount or just ebay them.

There's NO margin in new games, you may as well just go round to Tescos, buy all your new stuff there, collect the points and then use those points to sub your food shopping and to buy other games to sell. So basically used games are where it's at...

>And you can swap 2nd hand games for free. Try not to spend money on buying >and selling 2nd hand games.

Well try not to LOSE money. but buying in used can be good when you can offer a stupidly low amount. As regarding swapping games. Basically this may well count as a trade in and may count therefore for revenue purposes and would be taxable. I don't know, it was when I was in business but may be different now.

>Sell sweet and drink and have a cafe would help to bring in money.

It's be nice but once your selling and handling food as a cafe, you'd  need planning permission and you have to do all that enviromental health stuff. also once the landlord finds that out, he'll whack your rent up.

When I had my shop the problem for me when I wanted to move is that every shop I looked at was pitched at retail but when I turned up there'd be some kebab van owner there talking to the landlord about getting the planing permission changed and the rent would then go up another 2-3 grand.

Your main mind set is MAKNG MONEY, not doing "cool things". If it sells and makes cash then you should stock it and proft from it. Cafes etc are really nice and they are something i wanted bUT you could probably get away with a drinks achine if your hell bent on this - trouble is someone has to clear the mess up and after a few sesions with the mop at peak time of the day you'll regret the idea.

Stocking US mags is a nice idea, one I pursuied by calling up comag, only problem was a minimum spend and I had to swallow 25% of the sticker price - no full sale or return on the buggers.  I placed a couple of ads with Future publishing when I started and they sent me all their games mags for ever more from then, for free. I used to keep them in the shop for customers to look through but frankly you'll lose cash on this.

If you stock DVD's it gives women something to look at, so they don't drag their boyfriends out quickly. They are also higher margin. Go and pick up loads of £2-£3 and charge 4-5 pounds for them. making 50% margin.

Demo units and big TV's? Where the return?

>Good luck to Mr Sphew.

He'll need it if he follows some of the advice in this thread. Just go mail order - but then THATS dying a death as people either go direct or are prepared to pay les on ebay.

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Heed the above advice folks - don't spend 2 years of your life losing money like I did (on comics actually) before realising the awful truth...the only way to even hint at a profit is online.

And even then, I'd make damn sure you have another job as well.

It's an idea that I'm toying with at the moment - I've still got shedloads of comics left over from when I ran my own business. I'm just going to set up a simple website, bung on the photos of stock, and just take paypal. But god knows that this is just to get rid of the things - there's no way I'd quit my day job for it. Y'know, bit of fun and all that.

I've lost a bit of faith in ebay recently - the fact is they do take a significant share of the money, and when you're dealiong with comics, there's no much money to spare, quite frankly.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

The main 'problem' is that you can't compete on price with big chains like Game, so you have to take things in a different directions to get your crowd in.

In Holland there should be more room for specialised gameshops, as the huge majority of games over here are sold by music- and toystores against RRP prices. There are only a few dedicated gameshops, which are either spinoffs from the music/toychains or small indies which also sell at RRP.

A good store with a good atmosphere, a healthy amount of titles and 10-15% discount on RRP might just do the trick.

[Asura]

Hmmm, a lot of ideas Spew, but having worked in a games shop, some of them are a bit flawed. For example, your "no-one shops before 9" idea is flat-out wrong, and to me shows a lack of market research on your part. Given, business in gaming shops is naturally busier after 12, but people do buy things before that - and not just on release days either. People come in waiting for the bus etc, and do occasionally buy things.

Your arcade machines will bring in money, but also bring in 12yo chav kids, and they will put off the rest of your customers. Thing is though, the chav kids outnumber the potential gamers that you could cater to.

You seem to want to make a shop purely for gamers - thats noble - but in the end ill-concieved, because at the end of the day there aren't that many of us. The reason why all the major retailers make such a big deal about stuff like NFS:U2 and shelve stuff like Rez is because thats what the market wants.

When I worked for Gamestation, I did some research into this matter, pending the staff at our branch leaving together and opening our own business, and after a bit of digging, we were staggered at how little profit shops like that actually make.

Anyway, my point is that all the ideas you should work to should be based off research - you should go into this with a blank slate and open mind, and build the shop around that. If you don't, then you'll find research to fit a pre-determined conclusion, and ultimately you'll fail.

[El Pibe]

I'd target the areas that I think are weak in somewhere like Game.

1. The staff playing PSPs whilst there's a massive queue. Annoys customers and is rude.

2. The store being a mess. Things need to be well arranged and kept tidy

3. Many of the games are hidden away in the stockroom and not on display. Some people will ask, many will just go to another shop, especially if there is a queue.

4. The pre-owned prices not being updated, so that oftenthe secondhand games are more expensive than the new ones. This looks really bad, IMO.

5. The smell. I'd get a few glade plug-ins to combat the whiff that is so often present in Game and Gamestation.

6. I would want knowledgeable staff but this isn't always a good thing. I dread getting served by one of the blokes in my local GameStation as he is the epitomy of an irritating know-it-all games geek. He ALWAYS has to pass comment on what customers are buying, informing people that he knows best and often tells them what they are buying is rubbish, I saw him spend 5-10 minutes explaining to a poor woman that there might be a cheat for Grand Theft Auto where you can have everyone walking around naked but wasn't sure how to get it to work, and he's incredibly slow at serving, often being distracted and joining in with discussion the other staff are having with custoers or between themselves. Dreadful.

Which is why I'd like people who knew about games but primarily I'd want people who had good customer service and were polite.

Agree with Spew that it would also be nice to make the shops brighter. Many GameStations and a number of Game stores are horribly dark and grubby.

[Transient Curse]

A good store with a good atmosphere, a healthy amount of titles and 10-15% discount on RRP might just do the trick.

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Just curious, could one of those who've have their own store comment on if that's possible to do and make a profit when buying in the quantities and indie store buys in at. How much does an indie store have to pay for games? I've been told Nintendo software is more expensive, is that right?

As more people come forward with ideas even I, who has no interest in running a shop and therefore haven't thought about it in any great depth, can see that it's actually a considerably more unlikely business to make work than it initially seems.

[SeanR]

ps. http://www.actsofgord.com

[Dandy_Sephy]

[Spunky Monkey]

If you are going to offer game prices less than GAME then make sure you get customers buying from you. I noticed in GAME that a lot of people go to the cheaper stores, note down the price, go to GAME and use their reward card and price match.

What you want to do is effectivly stop people price matching, some kind of voucher/card should do the trick, but you have to do it in such a way as that GAME cant price match you but you dont get customers going 'forms...i cant be bothered id rather pay more money'

Your store does sound like a nice idea, but i doubt it'll be profitable and as fun as you think it'll be. Take the Big Gamestation in Brum, thats similar to what you want to achieve, but i reckon most the people in there dont buy, they just play on the pods.

[Sabreman]

Mine would just be a complete lottery-winning fantasy. I'd have to already be absolutely loaded because I'd lose money running the business.

I'd stock a broad range of good quality retro titles across computers and consoles, import stuff as well. I would only stock stuff in excellent condition - no cart only or stuff without instructions. As for discs, I wouldn't touch anything that was scratched. I wouldn't bother selling hardware at all as it's far too much trouble. I'd only have display cases for all the current items, and all retro would be in display cabinets

The shop would be airy and bright, and there would be videogame music playing all day. I wouldn't buy things over the counter for cash apart from very choice items, and I'd only trade for the kind of things mentioned above. I reserve the right to tell anyone that brings me a filthy old pile of PS2 games to sling their hook.

I'd also stock soundtracks and art books, and things like plushes and good quality figures.

Basically it'd be like one of those out-of-the-way specialist boutiques that knows it's specific customer base.

[moosegrinder]

Sportswear and baseball caps would be banned. Anyone smelling of piss and sweat would be banned. Anyone walking in with foodstuffs from Greggs would be kicked out immediately, then banned. Anyone who phones up and doesn't say hello before starting a question would be hung up on. No Pods playable, only rolling demos. Apart from that buy at a fair (low) price, sell at a fair price, get staff that know what they're doing, air fresheners, decent range of music at a decent level of volume (should be background noise, not defening wankery), dummy boxes a go-go, cash only on producing DNA samples with corresponding paperwork, fingerprint records and a drivers licence, and NO 10 day exchange or refund. You bought it, fucking play it. You don't know if you'll like it, don't fucking buy it.

[Sabreman]

Ah yes, I forgot the no exchange thing. Definitely.

[Sabreman]

I think there's something to be said for a specialist type of retailer. Some of the more aloof attitudes above would actually help I think. A bit of a snobby elitist air of not even trying to compete with larger retailers might appeal to some people. Think of the record shop in High Fidelity, that kinda thing. A place where people wouldn't mind paying a bit more to be able to say that they're a regular there. Like a Harrods of the videogame world. If you could get it right, I think it would be possible to pitch to the richer gamers who can afford to pay a little more if they get to feel like they're recieving a rare and priviliged service. It's hard to explain, but if you could get it right I think there is a market for high class retailership in the games industry, it's just finding a place where enough of the people that might be interested would live.

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Yeah, I wouldn't be snobby about it. I'd just expect people to respect my shop and be polite, and they'd get the same in return.

[Qazimod]

Instead of organising by genre or platform, I'd organise by demographic. "More money than sense?" would have a load of crappy EA games and film licenses, "Kids" would have stuff like Tony Hawk's, 50 Cent: Bulletproof and Crazy Frog Racer, "Other" would have all the shit that I probably wouldn't be able to criticise in the store, but it's lack of a category would evidence it's worth. "Experienced" would contain stuff that frightens off your mum, like Ikaruga, SF Anniversary Collection, Panzer Dragoon Orta - stuff that isn't so "pick-up-and-play", because that stuff would be in the "Getting Started" section...which would probably be chock-full of DS, Revolution, Eyetoy stuff. And bemani. Lots of bemani.

[Rowan Morrison]

- Make it clean

- Have nice carpet

I'd imagine the desecration of these two ideals alone will generate enough misery to break your heart after the first month of business.

[JoeK]

Just curious, could one of those who've have their own store comment on if that's possible to do and make a profit when buying in the quantities and indie store buys in at. How much does an indie store have to pay for games? I've been told Nintendo software is more expensive, is that right? 

As more people come forward with ideas even I, who has no interest in running a shop and therefore haven't thought about it in any great depth,  can see that it's actually a considerably more unlikely business to make work than it initially seems.

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I don't think it's possible to do a blanket 10-15% off if you have a store. The only thing which could feasibly work would be a membership-style thing whereby customers pay some sort of yearly subscription, and then get money off.

Even then, I think you're pushing things somewhat to make it pay.

The even worse thing is that you now don't have the import market on anywhere near the same level as you did. Where once stores could actually get away with selling import titles for upwards of £60 (I still can't believe it, but it's certainly true), the market has pretty much died on a commercial scale, due to quicker releases in all regions. And what's more, it's far cheaper to buy an import title off an online store from US or somesuch.

Tough for the little people, I'm afraid.

[213]

Just curious, could one of those who've have their own store comment on if that's possible to do and make a profit when buying in the quantities and indie store buys in at. How much does an indie store have to pay for games? I've been told Nintendo software is more expensive, is that right? 

As more people come forward with ideas even I, who has no interest in running a shop and therefore haven't thought about it in any great depth,  can see that it's actually a considerably more unlikely business to make work than it initially seems.

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When I tried to stock nintendo games years ago I got told that I had to not stock anything grey import, I had to spend 4k up front, I had to sign a load of conditions and agree to spend 1K a month.

When I called up Sega they sent me a list of distributors that did cash, credit, minimum spend, no minimum spend and generally fell over themselves to get their stuff in my shop. Nintendo are in MCV magazine saying they'll revamp their deals with indies, well I'd be interested there as they still go on about "signing" onto their terms and conditions......

As for selling new items, frankly it's not worth it, the supermarkets sell it new to the public for less than you'll be able to buy it for from Gem or anyone else.

And remember this stuff depreciates and gets old like nothing else out there from the moment you make that order your losing cash on it...

[JoeK]

When I tried to stock nitendo games years ago I got told that I had to not stock anything grey import, I had to spend 4k up front, I had to dign a load of conditions and agree to spend 1K a months.

When I called up Sega they sent me a list of distributors that did cash, credit, minimum spend, no minimum spend and generally fell over themselves to get their stuff in my shop. Nintendo are in the magazine saying they'll revamp their deals with indies, well I'd be interested there as they still go on about "signing" onto their terms and conditions......

As for selling new items, frankly it's not worth it, the supermarkets sell it new to the public for less than you'll be able to buy it for from Gem or anyone else.

And remember this stuff depreciates and gets old like nothing else out there from the moment you make that order your losing cash on it...

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This is presumably a fundamental reason why Nintendo's floor space in most store is...erm...underwhelming.

[Liquid Myth]

213: sucking the fun out of interesting ideas since 19xx.

[213]

I think there's something to be said for a specialist type of retailer. Some of the more aloof attitudes above would actually help I think.

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Basically Video game centre in bournemouth...

Thing is I don't think providing a decent customer service, not having your shop stink and having a decent range of titles is that major a thing - it's something CEX could do if they dropped the snobishness and banned their staff from playing KOF all day when I'm trying to spend cash there.

The reason why people goto game is that it's not intimidating - when they got shot of the black fronts, the dark insides the demographics went up about 10 years overnight and the taking doubled in many shops. Many places like FP, comic book shops , all sorts of "cool" places are really intimidating to the normal person on the street. People still think specialist retail is like the old Not the Nine o'clock news hi fi shop sketch "do you want woofers and tweeters with that" thus they shop in places like woolworths.

The trouble with trying to be a specialist and appeal to the hard core is that were tight, arrogant sods who want somewhere cool to hang out and look at games but then wanna go and spend our cash mail order and save 25-30 %..

Frankly I wouldn't do it, maybe on the south coast where there's cash and a few people I know have done well, (the summer season actually works for you there as the tourists spend a fortune) but the supermarkets will own it pretty soon (except for the launch machines they'll let someone else build the market up and then come in "to it's rescue").

[213]

ps. http://www.actsofgord.com

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That guy's a bit of a cock really, I'm sure he deals with idiots but ripping them will only lose you custom and makes you look like comic book guy from the simpsons.

Ultimately he runs a shop, he's retail, thats all.

[JoeK]

ps. http://www.actsofgord.com

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Stephanie...

That's all I will say...

Yowser.

[Transient Curse]

That guy's a bit of a cock really, I'm sure he deals with idiots but ripping them will only lose you custom and makes you look like comic book guy from the simpsons.

Ultimately he runs a shop, he's retail, thats all.

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I used to think some of the stories were amusing but I had a little read just now and came up with the same conclusion. What a cock.

[Afternoon Delight]

Damn you 213 with your commercial realities and sensible advice. I want a shop for cool and interesting gamers, don't bother us with this profit nonsense.

[213]

This is presumably a fundamental reason why Nintendo's floor space in most store is...erm...underwhelming.

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What you have to remember is that Sony earnt retails undying love by offering full sale and return when they started out and offering price protection as well, ie if they dropped the price you were not stuck with the goods at the much higher price.

This was something Sega didn't do and Nintendo frankly had a heart attack over. This is why retail loved Sony they dragged the retail end out of the ghetto and ran things in a much more professional way.

I think Nintendo would like it if there were no indie shops out there and consequently no used sales, they'd love to toally control the entire retail chain, ok most other companies would love that as well but doing business as an indie used to be (and from my friends who are still retailers still is) much easier with anyone but Nintendo.

Your experiences may vary when they sort this new program they were talking about in MCV, I'd like to see it as someone going out there, dealing direct with indies and offering them the same prices as big retail would be brilliant especially if backed up with price protection and lots of pos. It'd also get these shops evengelising about them as a brand..

Sorry to waffle.

[213]

213: sucking the fun out of interesting ideas since 19xx.

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1991. Hey shop owning is fun but 2k tax blls and only 500 quid in cash as you've tied up a load of readies in hardware and games that may or may not show up on launch day isn't..

a "cool" shop would be great but people wouldn't spend money there, they SAY they would but they won't.

Spew:

Fundamentally you are going into business and all the usual rules apply here, good business is good business, you do your home work, find a location, decide what part of the market to concentrate on and go for it.

I seriously would not allow myself to be distracted by people suggesting cool things to do as they aren't paying for it and they aren't looking and trying to make it pay. A console, chairs and Hi def tv - thats what? £1200 quid, plus floor space. I'd be expecting a 25% return on that money within a month if I put it into stock but you've spent £1200 and it's dead money. You'd be better off keeping that £1200 quid and buying a load of cheap games from sales, clearouts overstocks etc and trying to rent them or turn them round on ebay.

Take game for instance - what wrong with it?

Well the staff are keen but not majorly knowledgeable at times so keep the keeness, the ability to sell and just improve the knowledge. And the stocks good but the used prices are a bit high at times so be more aware of whats happening out there.

But consider, both game and gamestation are in the shit right now so if they can't make it work..............

[Goemon]

Selling games a few quid less than all other retailers works wonders too.

Grainger Games in Newcastle started as one stall in a market but they undercut all their competitors on games and allowed trades. Now they've flying with about 6 branches throughout the Northeast.

At the end of the day all the stuff you want is just niceties which won't cut it in a business world. All people want is the most popular games at the cheapest prices. If you can sort out doing this, you'll be on the way.

For me peronally - I would only open a store if I won the lottery. Even then it wouldn't be as a business, it would purely be for the banter.

[Rowan Morrison]

Thing is I don't think providing a decent customer service, not having your shop stink and having a decent range of titles is that major a thing - it's something CEX could do if they dropped the snobishness and banned their staff from playing KOF all day when I'm trying to spend cash there.

That sounds exactly like our CEX, but there are always plenty of people queuing up (and not merely because the staff are arsing around). I can't imagine cleaning up the place and getting the staff in line would really have a huge impact on profits. Actually, keeping the place clean would be a logistical nightmare, and the staff are most likely surly or disinterested because they're faced with a constant stream of ghastly customers - the same ghastly customers who keep the place packed (and dirty). So I can't imagine they have much hope.

It's nice to imagine an ideal game shop where staff, customers and stock balance out in a welcoming, fun environment, but at the end of the day, who are the bulk of your customers going to be? They're going to be the same people you see in CEX and Gamestation. You're not going to suddenly uncover a stream of pleasant, knowledgable and hygenic gamers who are happy to pay a little more to see an independent business succeed but have been waiting in the wings for a shop like yours to open.

So you might as well go all-out from day one. Put bouncers on the door, only stock games you personally cherish, and treat it like a gentleman's club until the bank manager steps in - at least that way you'll have some happy memories rather than the trade-in price of Kelly Slater's Pro Surfer branded into your brain...