Owning A Game Store

[Mr Spew]

As in the 'Ye Olde Computer Shoppe' thread, people complain about the rubbishity of computer/game shops nowadays, and as a thought that's been running around my head for the past couple of years (with many ideas, and the realisation that they wouldn't work, see: game/cafe combination), I want to ask what you'd do different to the shops at the moment.

Personally:

- Make it clean, warm in the cold weather (many shops can't acheive this), and generally welcoming

- Have nice carpet, walls, and as natural a light as possible (too many dingy Gamestations make this a fairly high priority)

- Not sure on the shelving system, I've considered alternatives such as just having games behind glass cabinets, but people can't look at the back of cases.

- Have a decent selection of new and varied import games, hello imported DSes and games, hello import PSP section, hello region-free Xbox 360 games!

- Sell games magazines from America (even if it's just the one copy of each magazine) as well as UK ones obviously

- Full-size metal dance mats with back-bars for sale as well as PS2 (JAP) with dance game packages

- Around five arcade machines, three retro ones at 20p a go, and new ones (HotD4, Taiko etc) for 50p each across one wall

I toyed with the idea of a cafe kind of area, with two HDTVs back to back, with each console linked up and controllers connected (with couches for each TV) - but the drink's side of things would make things messy, kids coming in all too often and stinking the shop out (18+ only?!) and hogging the machines really put me off. However, something after hours just like that I've just mentioned, could work well. Maybe even four HDTVs (ones from the flat above me and whoever else would live in?) with free reign of the arcade machines and whatever for parties (bookable birthday ones?)? Who knows, could work, but possibly wouldn't be too popular.

As I said, I've many ideas, and within the next three years I'll be ready to go on it all (unless I get on a JET-style scheme, in which case delay that by two years!).

So how and what would you do?

[Mr Do 71]

hello imported DSes and games

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hello Nintendo, no, no.

So how and what would you do?

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I wouldn't open a shop for one thing, think about the rent. Much easier and cheaper, to start off mail order.

[SeanR]

I'd have laminated copies of the game covers (they're all DVD-ish sized now, innit?) on the shelves. takes up less room.

BUT... fiddlier to handle, you know, pick up, browse through...

Oh, and a decent amount of money to fund the enterprise too... I wouldn't want the bank(s) breathing down my neck the whole time.

[Mr Spew]

hello Nintendo, no, no.

I wouldn't open a shop for one thing, think about the rent. Much easier and cheaper, to start off mail order.

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What're they going to do? Do the same as they did to everyone else and refuse to let me buy in UK Revolution and DS stuff at cost price? Oh no!

No chance of mail order, you have to cut down so much on prices and it's a lot trickier getting the word out considering how many there are around (even just eBay stores) - as well as having to deal with the cock of a Distance Sellings Act and the chance of things getting 'broken' in the post and just not turning up. Sod that.

I'll approach my cousin who owns a fair few companies about it with full business plans with regards to funding.

[Mr Spew]

I'd have laminated copies of the game covers (they're all DVD-ish sized now, innit?) on the shelves. takes up less room.

BUT... fiddlier to handle, you know, pick up, browse through...

Oh, and a decent amount of money to fund the enterprise too... I wouldn't want the bank(s) breathing down my neck the whole time.

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Didn't think of that, good idea. But indexing them wouldn't be the easiest. Of course depends how many of each game we have.

Pre-owned games - put prices on the spines then put them into a big cabinet or something. Maybe display them at an angle so you can see part (a third?) of the front cover could work well too.

[SeanR]

Didn't think of that, good idea.  But indexing them wouldn't be the easiest.  Of course depends how many of each game we have.

Pre-owned games - put prices on the spines then put them into a big cabinet or something.  Maybe display them at an angle so you can see part (a third?) of the front cover could work well too.

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I think I saw it in a video shop once... the lammy idea, I mean.

[racketboy]

As opposed to people at the chain places, I would actually know something about games other than Halo 2 and Grand Theft Auto

[MrPogo]

Keeping a 'good selection' of games would be a big plus. Usually you can only find the new releases and a backstock of the crap no one wants, with no sign of the 'great game, but overlooked on release because it clashed with something huge' titles that I don't start actively looking to buy until a few months down the line.

[MK-1601]

I'd have thought it would be damn near impossible to start up an indie games retailer these days, so good luck to you if you decide to make a go of it.

The most successful indie stores I've seen are ones that try to persue every avenue open to them:

- Getting a better price on games by sniffing around for surplus and remaindered stock

- Offering mail order (although I don't think there is any retailer that offers as good a service as the dedicated mail order companies - it's expensive and risky)

- Putting a big emphasis on trade-ins and customer loyalty (if CEX can manage this it can't be that hard)

The best store layout I've seen is the 'blockbuster' style of having 1-deep display shelves with new stuff, and a big display area and counter so that customers are encouraged to ask if they don't see what they want. Making sure the place is clean, well lit and well signposted is more important than cramming in extra shelves (are you listening HMV). And no loud music.

Regarding the cafe aspect, one or two cocktail cabinets are probably a better bet than sofas+consoles+screens which would get wrecked very quickly regardless of how stringent you were about keeping kids and chavs out.

[Comrade]

- Sell games magazines from America (even if it's just the one copy of each magazine)

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Why on earth would you want to do that?

[Mr Spew]

As opposed to people at the chain places, I would actually know something about games other than Halo 2 and Grand Theft Auto

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Want a job when the store opens?

Making sure the place is clean, well lit and well signposted is more important than cramming in extra shelves (are you listening HMV). And no loud music.

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Yeah, definitely. And beng spacious is also something I'd like the/a shop to be. No trying to squeeze by people much.

Loud music? All that's going to be on is the JSR, JSRF, and Rez soundtracks.

Why on earth would you want to do that?

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Variety - I quite like EGM, maybe just general worldwide magazines? Just to add to the repertoire of stock really.

[Crisp_Rapper]

Loud music?  All that's going to be on is the JSR, JSRF, and Rez soundtracks.

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SOLD!!!!!!!! i shall take up residence on one of the sofas. ta.

[racketboy]

those OSTs rock

I'll join you

[Mr Spew]

SOLD!!!!!!!! i shall take up residence on one of the sofas. ta.

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Want to be our resident console sprayer?

[Djx]

Hopefully you'll be selling brand new games still-sealed. All stores, even the online ones, seem to sell 2nd-hand stuff as new.

To avoid over-cramming of shelves, just one display box of each game could be kept on the shelves. Your staff should both be clued up enough to know what game is being asked for without a box in hand.

How about a membership scheme? Not Reward card style.

Moreso that you must sign up for special bonuses such as shopping after-hours etc. Kind of like what Debenhams do for their card holders.

[racketboy]

Another thing I just thought of is to have your own website with possibly a way to check the store's inventory online.

Also have a message board to build a community.

Then maybe have some tourements -- like Street Fighter III or 8-player Bomberman

[Mr Spew]

Hopefully you'll be selling brand new games still-sealed. All stores, even the online ones, seem to sell 2nd-hand stuff as new.

To avoid over-cramming of shelves, just one display box of each game could be kept on the shelves. Your staff should both be clued up enough to know what game is being asked for without a box in hand.

How about a membership scheme? Not Reward card style.

    Moreso that you must sign up for special bonuses such as shopping after-hours etc. Kind of like what Debenhams do for their card holders.

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This is possibly going a little too towards suggesting ideas to me for 'my' shop, but I'll answer anyway.

I kinda like the idea of laminated covers for this very reason, but I'm not entirely sure on them. I'm clued up on my games, requirements for things like Live (Marketplace etc which no one in the store I work in at the moment is) and all that.

Not a fan of membership schemes, unless it's of merit. People can shop when they like. When I get round to it, we'll open late (12 until 6pm I'd say) because no one shops before then unless it's a console launch, in which case we'll open up at 9am.

I know what you mean about after-hours, I think it could just be something on request, or if it just became a 'thing' where it'd stay open late anyway (8 or 9?) just because staff were playing games and all that. It'd add to the sense of the store being the customer's store too.

[Mr Spew]

Another thing I just thought of is to have your own website with possibly a way to check the store's inventory online.

Also have a message board to build a community.

Then maybe have some tourements -- like Street Fighter III or 8-player Bomberman

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Website idea is a good one, CEX implement that, but it's a load of shite in there because a staff member has put the X Files complete boxset to the side for himself, yet it still shows up on the stock as being in stock which is slightly annoying since I wanted it (and asked last week when I saw it).

Message board - I would say yes, but I think that's not such a good idea - they'll see it as being an excuse not to come into the store, meaning a lack of community - which really depends on the area - I'd just refer them here really. I mean, gamesTM's forums were pretty damn quiet for a 20 000 selling magazine, a local store's forums wouldn't be too good, would it?

Tournaments sound promising - it's all about the amount of people though, who'd turn up and all that.

Any areas that people know of or live in that could do with a fairly big (even high street) store that doesn't already have two GAMEs, a Gamestation and another indie in?

[angel]

Great ideas, lovely, but theres no way that would break anywhere near even.

Theres a whole load of reasons why it couldnt get close to making any money but its 330am.

Imports = no supply of legit games from manufacturers, and no consoles.

Your main revenue stream is 2nd hand, but people wont trade as you'l be stuck on indie prices...unable to fight GAMES bulk buying cost cutting power.

Coin ops cost fortunes, never gona happen.

HDTVs? Broken within a month.

Mags dont sell from game shops. Import mags wont have sale or return.

Would need good committed staff, lot of money outgoing per week.

Wont compete with supermarket prices on any level.

Will end up with a pile of 2nd hand duffers.

You'd need a full till system, stock system, self audit ability, you'd pay VAT on all your profits, rent would be a fortune and go way up after a year.

Local competition would be aggressive. Returns policy would mess up stock and can easily create bad feeling.

If you're selling new stock then there'd be no money in it whatsoever, nevermind not getting supply.

You make your money on 2nd hand fifa sales, not 2nd hand wario twisted ltd edition forum friendly hardcore game.

You'd have to sink a fortune into depreciating stock, rent up front, staff training, IT systems of some sort (even small scale), cleaning bills, phone bill, heating, light, electricity (loads of light bulbs and coin ops arent free).

Staff / customer theft costs, security on premises costs (prime target a game shop, prime target...very easy to sell goods on).

[Dandy_Sephy]

Nintendo WILL make you pay for daring to offer imports. CEX got a right bollocking over that. As back alley or online shop you wouldnt be affected so much, but it's too risky to be honest if you want to establish a big name for yourself. they can and will affect your supply of Ninty published games and systems. The other two dont seem to mind as much (except the psp pre euro release ofc )

There is no way you could offer arcade gaming at 50p a go with proper machines. The machine cost is far too much.

Much of what angel says is harsh, but probably accurate given my experience of talking to indie owners and chain staff.

it's also very hard work to make a profit of any sustainable amount and expand. All those new and fancy ideas may seem the way to go, but putting them into pratice is a very different thing. If you won the lottery and had plenty of cash to put in then it would be risk free. Starting from nothing and establishing a competitive business with a conventional funding method would probably give you a breakdown

[McNeillR]

The 'in the back' system would work if you tried it with a, as mentioned, Debenhams Gold card holdery system.

Basically, if you charge the geeks to sign up and sit around and drink coffee you won't have any problems with sticky controllers.

Then again, they probably won't spend that much money. And how do you sort out arguments over 'who's next' et al. Small things I'm sure. Oh, and the leccy bill!

[zektbach]

hello Nintendo, no, no.

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Walk into any Forbidden Planet store and you'll see that they stock import DS and Gamecube titles.

At least the large one in Belfast does...

Oh and they do import GBA games as well.

[Transient Curse]

I think the whole thing is Dooooooomed. I dunno how the indie keeps going near me but I think alot of it is to do with collectible figures and models.

[Bluetooth]

Women only staff policy. Course, it won't be openly mentioned, it's just a case of all women doing better at the interview

[Stroker Ace]

Jokes aside, if you staffed a games store with nothing but pretty girls, you'd double the customers.

[Transient Curse]

Jokes aside, if you staffed a games store with nothing but pretty girls, you'd double the customers.

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Probably right there. Why not fuck off the lounge area and make that bit a hairdressers, you could get your pick of the local college's beauty course in for next to nothing and have them sell games too. Genius.

It's still Dooooooooomed though.

[Salsa Party Animal]

It will be hard to make a lot of money, but try to get ther the balance right.

ie don't have a ridicous wide range of games ie every game for PS2 or whatever. Have plenty of games you can sell ie GTA, Halo, Fifa and don't sell games like Barbie's horse riding or Crazy Frog Racer. You need a good selection of quality games and game that sell to EA/mass market chavs.

Also be careful when doing 2nd hand games. Another idea worth considering buy somthing for a tenner or more, and you can swap 2nd hand games for free. Try not to spend money on buying and selling 2nd hand games.

Sell sweet and drink and have a cafe would help to bring in money.

Good luck to Mr Sphew.

[TheSlugFormerlyKnownAsNap]

How about organising tournaments around popular games every once in a while. Put up a HDTV and console, then organise stuff like 'best laptime in PGR3'-month. When you buy a game you get a ticket to enter, and the best score at the end of the month can pick a game for free.

Good way to keep you customers coming back.

[213]

As a former shop owner who found out many things the hard way...

>ie don't have a ridicous wide range of games ie every game for PS2 or >whatever. Have plenty of games you can sell ie GTA, Halo, Fifa and don't sell >games like Barbie's horse riding or Crazy Frog Racer. You need a good selection >of quality games and game that sell to EA/mass market chavs.

The only reason you wouldn't stock barbie is because you can ebay them for a vey good rate. Barbie sells - along with the mary king horse riding games etc, it's doing the same Job ninty do with the Ds.......... Remember ps2 outsells all other formats, yes it's not the kind of shop you may want to work in (you may want somethig thats cool) but it's profitable and lots of the kids games can be picked up elsewhere for peanuts. And remember, most shops don't stock psone stuff now but there's still a demand so cherry pick the kids titles to stock or just buy in the rare stuff and fuck it out on ebay.

>Also be careful when doing 2nd hand games.

Well you need to prey on the poor and defensless, you need to buy games for cash for a pss take amount and then either sell them in the shop at an inflated amount or just ebay them.

There's NO margin in new games, you may as well just go round to Tescos, buy all your new stuff there, collect the points and then use those points to sub your food shopping and to buy other games to sell. So basically used games are where it's at...

>And you can swap 2nd hand games for free. Try not to spend money on buying >and selling 2nd hand games.

Well try not to LOSE money. but buying in used can be good when you can offer a stupidly low amount. As regarding swapping games. Basically this may well count as a trade in and may count therefore for revenue purposes and would be taxable. I don't know, it was when I was in business but may be different now.

>Sell sweet and drink and have a cafe would help to bring in money.

It's be nice but once your selling and handling food as a cafe, you'd need planning permission and you have to do all that enviromental health stuff. also once the landlord finds that out, he'll whack your rent up.

When I had my shop the problem for me when I wanted to move is that every shop I looked at was pitched at retail but when I turned up there'd be some kebab van owner there talking to the landlord about getting the planing permission changed and the rent would then go up another 2-3 grand.

Your main mind set is MAKNG MONEY, not doing "cool things". If it sells and makes cash then you should stock it and proft from it. Cafes etc are really nice and they are something i wanted bUT you could probably get away with a drinks achine if your hell bent on this - trouble is someone has to clear the mess up and after a few sesions with the mop at peak time of the day you'll regret the idea.

Stocking US mags is a nice idea, one I pursuied by calling up comag, only problem was a minimum spend and I had to swallow 25% of the sticker price - no full sale or return on the buggers. I placed a couple of ads with Future publishing when I started and they sent me all their games mags for ever more from then, for free. I used to keep them in the shop for customers to look through but frankly you'll lose cash on this.

If you stock DVD's it gives women something to look at, so they don't drag their boyfriends out quickly. They are also higher margin. Go and pick up loads of £2-£3 and charge 4-5 pounds for them. making 50% margin.

Demo units and big TV's? Where the return?

>Good luck to Mr Sphew.

He'll need it if he follows some of the advice in this thread. Just go mail order - but then THATS dying a death as people either go direct or are prepared to pay les on ebay.

[will2097]

As in the 'Ye Olde Computer Shoppe' thread, people complain about the rubbishity of computer/game shops nowadays, and as a thought that's been running around my head for the past couple of years (with many ideas, and the realisation that they wouldn't work, see: game/cafe combination), I want to ask what you'd do different to the shops at the moment.

Personally:

- Make it clean, warm in the cold weather (many shops can't achieve this), and generally welcoming

- Have nice carpet, walls, and as natural a light as possible (too many dingy Gamestations make this a fairly high priority)

- Not sure on the shelving system, I've considered alternatives such as just having games behind glass cabinets, but people can't look at the back of cases.

- Have a decent selection of new and varied import games, hello imported DSes and games, hello import PSP section, hello region-free Xbox 360 games!

- Sell games magazines from America (even if it's just the one copy of each magazine) as well as UK ones obviously

- Full-size metal dance mats with back-bars for sale as well as PS2 (JAP) with dance game packages

- Around five arcade machines, three retro ones at 20p a go, and new ones (HotD4, Taiko etc) for 50p each across one wall

I toyed with the idea of a cafe kind of area, with two HDTVs back to back, with each console linked up and controllers connected (with couches for each TV) - but the drink's side of things would make things messy, kids coming in all too often and stinking the shop out (18+ only?!) and hogging the machines really put me off.  However, something after hours just like that I've just mentioned, could work well.  Maybe even four HDTVs (ones from the flat above me and whoever else would live in?) with free reign of the arcade machines and whatever for parties (bookable birthday ones?)?  Who knows, could work, but possibly wouldn't be too popular.

As I said, I've many ideas, and within the next three years I'll be ready to go on it all (unless I get on a JET-style scheme, in which case delay that by two years!).

So how and what would you do?

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Mate I really like your idea. I really do. But if this is to be a profitable game store, as opposed to what I guess is a fantasy game store, I'd do the following.

Cheapest of everything.

- Lights. Fluorescent and far and few between. (Good and cheap.)

- Walling covered in any old posters I could find.

- Plenty of cold. Cold is cheap.

- Carpet. (Are you nuts? Formica.)

- and 30,000 copies of the Need for speed 'anything', FIFA 'anything'. In fact any game with a TV advert currently showing and/or more than 10 game adverts in current game mags. Basically, any band-wagon rolling. For a 5p cheaper than the competition.

- make sure all staff have big boobs and short skirts.

I'd also hire the cheapest eastern European (barely English speaking) pseudo-slaves money could buy.

Oh. Hold on. I just invented 'Game'.

They must make a fuckin' fortune.

Will

On a serious note: I like the idea of the arcade machines! You may want to consider some PC's for a cyber-cafe and LAN Parties. (Does anyone still do these?)