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Harmunt

Next Generation?

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Got to play Call of Duty 2 and King Kong on a 360 demo pod this morning...

Some of the textures on COD2 were abysmal - truly abysmal. So much so that the group of people around me even commented on it. Against a bunker it just looks like a complete and utter mess.

And as for King Kong... Played the 'fight the T-Rex' section. LOADS of character overlapping, arms going through walls and tails glitching into rocks.

At what generation am I going to see this kind of shit totally eradicated?

There really is no excuse for this shit programming style anymore, surely?

My twenty minutes with these titles hasn't exactly inspired me with confidence in getting a 360. :(

I'm confident that the second wave of titles will be much better... :)

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Those games are conversions though, not rewrites. Im sure Bungie will push the 'no overlapping' thing hard. Even Halflife 2 lets you walk 'through' health pickups when you dont need them, and you can see inside the model.

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hmmm, Resi 4 has all the clipping in the world (as does HL2 if you don't turn on 'solid' ragdolls) but it's still this gen's best game. Maybe it's time gamerz stopped caring about small technical quibbles (I genuinely believe I would enjoy games more if I didn't know what bump mapping or anti-aliasing was), rather than devcos start caring more.

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Those games are conversions though, not rewrites. Im sure Bungie will push the 'no overlapping' thing hard. Even Halflife 2 lets you walk 'through' health pickups when you dont need them, and you can see inside the model.

You're probably right.

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Stay clear of any game currently available for the PS2 and XBox - whats the point? Personally Im looking forward to Morrowind as maybe the first "must have" game for 360.

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Stay clear of any game currently available for the PS2 and XBox - whats the point?    Personally Im looking forward to Morrowind as maybe the first "must have" game for 360.

Dude, Morrowind is already out for the Xbox and PC. Been so for 3 years. I take it you mean "The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion"???

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It probably wasnt set up properly. Something to do with HD, or 720p, or 720i or something else rather uninteresting...

Those are the excuses ive been hearing anyways

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It probably wasnt set up properly. Something to do with HD, or 720p, or 720i or something else rather uninteresting...

Those are the excuses ive been hearing anyways

Interestingly that's the one area that really impressed me.

The HD image was stunning. Crisp and colourful.

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Presumably the rush into the 360 launch is causing the underwhelmingness of the current games. Look at the MGS4 and RE5 trailers, I reckon that's what next-gen titles will look like after a year or two.

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It's not an unreasonable point to make though is it?

We've now got ridiculously powerful machines, designed purely to play games on, yet we're still seeing technical and graphic issues which surely should have been ironed out this gen. Rough textures and poor clipping do go some way to breaking a game worlds believability, and to be honest, I'd much rather they sort out these basic but annoying issues, before highlighting them further in HD.

A case of running before you can walk IMO.

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I suppose developers will have a hard enough time getting the expected amount of detail into the character models without having to figure out long-standing problems like animation and collision detection.

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Stay clear of any game currently available for the PS2 and XBox - whats the point?

Excuse me? :angry:

It's not an unreasonable point to make though is it?

We've now got ridiculously powerful machines, designed purely to play games on, yet we're still seeing technical and graphic issues which surely should have been ironed out this gen. Rough textures and poor clipping do go some way to breaking a game worlds believability, and to be honest, I'd much rather they sort out these basic but annoying issues, before highlighting them further in HD.

A case of running before you can walk IMO.

Clipping issues and things like that are solvable on current hardware. It just requires better programmers with a keener eye to these things and the desire to iron them out.

Throwing new hardware at the problem won't make it go away.

EDIT: Um, yeah, I'm agreeing with you, btw.

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Yeah, collision detection of arbitrary objects defined as 3D meshes is not trivial by any means.

I'm of the school of thought which says that the coming gen is such that the graphics aren't really limited by the hardware, but the amount of time and talent available on the graphics production side. The reality is the games industry does not have people in it in sufficient number used to the sort of modelling and texturing jobs they're now getting given.

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Yeah, collision detection of arbitrary objects defined as 3D meshes is not trivial by any means.

I'm of the school of thought which says that the coming gen is such that the graphics aren't really limited by the hardware, but the amount of time and talent available on the graphics production side. The reality is the games industry does not have people in it in sufficient number used to the sort of modelling and texturing jobs they're now getting given.

I expect to see the birth of real-time physically modelled animation this generation. Motion capture is not the solution to the industry's animation problems.

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Anyone expecting widespread use of solid-body dynamics in the next gen should prepare for disappointment. It wasn't even widely used in CGI work until very recently.

I'm expecting the same to happen this gen as last gen- the first year's games will get panned for being last-gen but higher res ("Not a graphics whore, woah no!"), then the big guns will come along and release seriously hard-coded titles that actually do new graphical tricks. Four year down the line even these will look dated, but the intervening improvements will be blissfully ignored.

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I went to the xbox 360 tour in Leeds today.

I played COD2 and was amazed by how bad the textures were. And you can really see the polygons that go to make up the world around you, in that the objects have straight edges.

In all the games I played I thought the textures were unimpressive. I loved in Halo the way you could walk up to a rock and it looked so beautiful.

(I know graphics don't make a game.)

PGR3 did look nice, and it had a fast feel to it!

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I expect to see the birth of real-time physically modelled animation this generation. Motion capture is not the solution to the industry's animation problems.

Precisely. Procedural content is going to go through the roof.

In film land they have armies of programmer/artist hybrids that work almost entirely on lighting and shaders, and I expect this to emerge in a stronger sense in games. Currently the divide is way too big, and frankly there's a resistance from the existing games graphics types to accept that this is either going to happen or that it will be good.

A simple example would be weather systems. You can have a pixel pusher slave over your massive textures for ages, or you can write a system which dynamically generates clouds in your given style, animates them easily with a few parameters etc. Which is going to look better and be more cost effective?

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I've got to admit this is a valid point. Clipping problems spoil the solidity of a game, as does characters running on the spot when they hit a wall (another pet hate). That's not a whinging moan, this shit just needs to be sorted out and surly it can be now a days. Fuck, how hard is it?

Personally, going back to the title of the topic, I can't see the leap we're making with this new generation. It's not like going from a Master System to a Megadrive to a Saturn to a Dreamcast. (Appologies for the sega flavour but the same could be said NES > SNES > N64 > Gamecube). Wheres the leap with this new generation. What have I got to be excited about. What games look markedly different from good current gen titles. Where's something that's going to make me want this stuff so bad I'll consider buying it at launch on Lay a way from Freemans.

Come on optimists prove it. Show me the next generation, I really want to see it.

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