Quake 4 Dowloaded Almost 1 000 000 Times

[therearerules]

so everyone *who couldn't or wouldn't have bought the game anyway* can do it? sure. will have no effect on sales whatsoever, apart from selling a few copies to people who would otherwise never have played it.

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Doesn't work. Mr X isn't going to get game Y unless he can pirate it. What if after he pirates it his trusted friend tells him it's the best game ever and he should purchase it? Now he would have bought it, but he pirated it instead.

For the record, I download shitloads of XBox games, buy a few of the ones I download, buy plenty of them without downloading them (and trade them in) and get loads of second hand Gamecube games, because they never seem to go down in price. I don't pirate CD's because I have a fondness for bands which surpasses my fondness for most games devs (I couldn't deprive SFA of my money), but they're are some games franchises I'll buy regardless because of the fondness for a franchise- and the desire for a sequel. I also download films and tv shows such as wrestling, and I buy tickets for the live shows. Those are my downloading habits, but I never feel the need to justify them, they just are.

[Ravern]

Yes, but simply because I can't legally purchase it. It was some 2 many dj's mixes which as far as I am aware cannot be bought in any way shape or form. I feel guilty for not contacting them directly to ask if there are legal channels to allow me to buy them.

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Ever used a picture without a copyright notice?

[Opinionated Ham Scarecrow]

So you play games to get that warm fuzzy feeling inside that you've paid someone for a service?

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Christ, this thread has turned into an attack on people who pay for games now?

"A new low was found today in a barrel thought thouroughly scraped..."

[SomeNaiveChump]

Doesn't work. Mr X isn't going to get game Y unless he can pirate it. What if after he pirates it his trusted friend tells him it's the best game ever and he should purchase it? Now he would have bought it, but he pirated it instead.

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oh noes!!! he tried something before deciding whether to buy it!!!

[Mogget]

I've paid loads of money in the past for unfinished games and after a while I got sick and tired of being ripped off and now I'll just download them and if they don't work then it doesn't matter.

And if it does work, I assume that you buy a legitimate copy straight away ?

[BeeJay]

Christ, this thread has turned into an attack on people who pay for games now?

"A new low was found today in a barrel thought thouroughly scraped..."

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To be fair if you back someone in to a corner they will always come out fighting however they can.

Unfortunately, this is why I would never make a millionaire businessman. Honesty and what is right rarely gets what it deserves.

[Wickedkitten]

Christ, this thread has turned into an attack on people who pay for games now?

"A new low was found today in a barrel thought thouroughly scraped..."

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Nah I wouldn't say its an attack at all. It's more like if you are going to get on top of a soapbox and start preaching, you better make sure you are sinless yourself.

[SomeNaiveChump]

Christ, this thread has turned into an attack on people who pay for games now?

"A new low was found today in a barrel thought thouroughly scraped..."

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it's more his massively condescending view on a practice which (as long as you don't go to extremes) harms absolutely no-one.

[therearerules]

oh noes!!! he tried something before deciding whether to buy it!!!

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So piracy is OK as long as you buy it if you like it? Yeah I'd agree with that. The only problem is the price of a game can change so much from one wek to the next. Games go from £39.99 to £10 in a sale all the time.

[SomeNaiveChump]

And if it does work, I assume that you buy a legitimate copy straight away ?

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the legitimate copy is still not guaranteed to work.

[Fleagle]

Christ, this thread has turned into an attack on people who pay for games now?

Probably because they're being so fucking self righteous about the whole thing.

[Ravern]

Christ, this thread has turned into an attack on people who pay for games now?

"A new low was found today in a barrel thought thouroughly scraped..."

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Not at all, it's just very curious that someone basically has said one of the reasons they enjoy games is they feel good about paying someone for a service. Not an attack on people who pay for games at all (I'm one of them), it's just I expected people would enjoy games because of the experience of the games.

[El Geet]

Christ, this thread has turned into an attack on people who pay for games now?

"A new low was found today in a barrel thought thouroughly scraped..."

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I think the point trying to be made is that piracy isn't necessarily leaing to the destruction of the videogames developing community. It's also trying to show that people who download games aren't necessarily scum. I'd be the first to criticise someone whose entire game and film collection is made up of nothing but downloads but not to see the shades of grey is naive.

[Mogget]

The only things you will ever truely love in life are those that you have earned and respect. Material goods are worthless, it's how they make you feel that's worth paying for. I feel no pride and get no joy from watching, playing or listening to something that has been stolen by whatever means from someone else.

Well said.

[Fry Crayola]

yep.

but as long as people aren't losing sales then there is no victim, and as far as I'm concerned it's better both for the 'pirate' and the company that their material is enjoyed and its ideas are shared rather than missed out on.

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But there's a major problem. If publishers turn a blind eye on people getting stuff for free when they're clearly not going to purchase it, then nobody would ever buy the stuff. There'd be a few individuals who might feel bad and send a tenner their way, but ultimately the games would just become shareware and thus we'd be taking a step backwards.

You can't have one rule for people who won't buy and another for people who will.

[SomeNaiveChump]

art != material goods

[Opinionated Ham Scarecrow]

I don't pirate... nothing, nada.

I don't like it, it just feels wrong, I'm only posting (and reading) here to see how people justify it. It's hilarious: all the semantics, legal and situational bullshit being chucked around. I have no respect for yarrers who think they are somehow 'right' in what they do. That they are on some kind of crusade. That they deserve these games for free. I just wish someone would say:

"I pirate games cos I fucking can. Nothing anyone says will change that and I sleep perfectly well at night. Thankyou and goodbye..."

That I would respect. All the other stuff is tripe. Sorry.

[SomeNaiveChump]

But there's a major problem. If publishers turn a blind eye on people getting stuff for free when they're clearly not going to purchase it, then nobody would ever buy the stuff. There'd be a few individuals who might feel bad and send a tenner their way, but ultimately the games would just become shareware and thus we'd be taking a step backwards.

You can't have one rule for people who won't buy and another for people who will.

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in terms of the games industry (and possibly movies) this would be ABSOLUTELY GREAT.

in terms of music, it's not as if having/listening to mp3s is as good as physically having the CD/vinyl. if they were giving out CDs and records for free then obviously that would be far more harmful

[Ravern]

To be fair if you back someone in to a corner they will always come out fighting however they can.

Unfortunately, this is why I would never make a millionaire businessman. Honesty and what is right rarely gets what it deserves.

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To be fair if you back someone in to a corner they will resort to touching upon arrogance and self righteousness.

All I'm doing is defending myself from what is almost an accusation that I should be feeling like scum everytime I listen to an illegally downloaded song and look with shame at the Azureus running in my taskbar.

[Fry Crayola]

Because me, as an average Joe consumer doesn't, give two fucks over who made the game and simply wants to walk into a shop and buy something that works. I've been screwed over so many times in the past with pc games that I'm simply not willing to put up with it anymore and so choose to download a game instead.

So you're a leech. You want people to do the hard work to entertain you, because you feel you are so important and clearly deserve it just for existing.

Like I said earlier I'm just an average consumer and I don't give a damn about the behind the scenes stuff going on but simply want to buy a good game that works. The developer, publisher and the teaboy are all as guilty as far as I'm concerned if it doesn't.

I do want something for free and if I can get it then I will. However, I would pay for more pc games if I could trust them.

If you are unhappy with the quality then why do you even bother downloading it? Clearly these "bugs" are of sufficient size and quantity to completely cripple your enjoyment and make the game totally worthless. Are you a masochist?

Oh, and the only things I pirate are cd's, dvd's, old games and pc games. I don't own a modded xbox and I've never pirated a PS game in my life. I have no problem paying for a good console game because I know it will work and I could always easily take it back if it didn't.

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CDs and DVDs now? Are they bugged? Do they crash? Are they poorly made? Your argument has completely fallen apart now.

[Ravern]

I don't pirate... nothing, nada.

I don't like it, it just feels wrong, I'm only posting (and reading) here to see how people justify it. It's hilarious: all the semantics, legal and situational bullshit being chucked around. I have no respect for yarrers who think they are somehow 'right' in what they do. That they are on some kind of crusade. That they deserve these games for free. I just wish someone would say:

"I pirate games cos I fucking can. Nothing anyone says will change that and I sleep perfectly well at night. Thankyou and goodbye..."

That I would respect. All the other stuff is tripe. Sorry.

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I pirate games because it's sodding easy and I can't be arsed to by them, and have no qualms about it. I'm not inhumane, I have morals and but I can't say I've ever slept well.

[martroid]

That if the game had been bought would have resulted in the developers recieving an extra 10p or so.

On the subject of intellectual property - for me there's as much intellectual property in a game life FIFA 2006 as is in a Sugarbabe's album. If we compare the creation of a game I personally recently pirated - Sniper Elite - to a common band's music album, we start to see a difference.

With Sniper Elite, I'll estimate you have at least a few dozen working on the design and programming, and add on to that the numbers of voice actors and composers for the game.

With a band's album (let's take Franz Ferdinand's latest effort), you have:

Bass

Vocals

Guitar

Drums

Mastering

Production/mixing

Two sound engineers.

So that's four people that have put real soul and creative output into their product. The same cannot be said for the developers of Sniper Elite.

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Grrr. First, you talk about pirating Sniper Elite which you seemingly have no intention of paying for, a cracking game by a british developer that retails for less than 20 quid and probably wont sell anywhere near as much as it deserves.

Second, how do you know what went into the making of it? I remember reading that Rebellion were working on this game for three years. Three years of work that you've just taken a shit on with that post. How long do you think Franz Ferdinands album took to put together? I have no idea but I'm guessing it isnt anywhere near as long. Also, I'm sure Rebellion are more in need of (deserved) sales than Franz Ferdinand, who are probably now richer than they'd ever need to be.

[SomeNaiveChump]

for the record, I buy all the games, CDs and DVDs I can. I don't own any pirated games which I would buy (ie if they were real copies I'd just sell them as I never use them). I don't own any pirated movies and as I say I buy all the music I can - unfortunately I have a broad interest in music which could only sated legally by spending 100% of my income on it.

but I bet you count MAME roms as evil piratey things too.

[Mogget]

"I pirate games cos I fucking can. Nothing anyone says will change that and I sleep perfectly well at night. Thankyou and goodbye..."

Let me introduce you to Soong........

[Fleagle]

So you're a leech. You want people to do the hard work to entertain you, because you feel you are so important and clearly deserve it just for existing.

As opposed to the companies that have stiffed me out of tons of cash over the years by releasing buggy and unfinished work and expecting me to pay through the nose for it? Who's the bigger leach?

You stitch me up and I'll stitch you up.

If you are unhappy with the quality then why do you even bother downloading it? Clearly these "bugs" are of sufficient size and quantity to completely cripple your enjoyment and make the game totally worthless. Are you a masochist?

A lot of the time the games do turn out to be worthless which is fine when I'm now getting them for free.

CDs and DVDs now? Are they bugged? Do they crash? Are they poorly made? Your argument has completely fallen apart now.

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I freely admit that I download cd's and dvd's because I can. I always hated the way they were so obviously overpriced but even if they're reduced I'll still pirate them. Saying that though my collection consists of over 400 'real' dvd's and around 40 copies.

[Ravern]

Grrr. First, you talk about pirating Sniper Elite which you seemingly have no intention of paying for, a cracking game by a british developer that retails for less than 20 quid and probably wont sell anywhere near as much as it deserves.

Second, how do you know what went into the making of it? I remember reading that Rebellion were working on this game for three years. Three years of work that you've just taken a shit on with that post. How long do you think Franz Ferdinands album took to put together? I have no idea but I'm guessing it isnt anywhere near as long. Also, I'm sure Rebellion are more in need of (deserved) sales than Franz Ferdinand, who are probably now richer than they'd ever need to be.

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Those are true points, but you've misunderstood my point.

I'm not justifying it's piracy, I'm just saying that a comparison of the creativity/intellectual property in music and games is not a fair one.

And, for your information, I never finished downloading Sniper Elite. Instead, I went for the demo, and found it a little dull for my tastes.

[Strafe]

I just wish someone would say:

"I pirate games cos I fucking can. Nothing anyone says will change that and I sleep perfectly well at night. Thankyou and goodbye..."

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To be fair both me, Soong and a couple of others have been pretty upfront about that.

[Fry Crayola]

in terms of the games industry (and possibly movies) this would be ABSOLUTELY GREAT.

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GREAT if enough people pay for the stuff they like so as to keep up the standard of quality and pay for its development.

SHIT if that doesn't happen.

[Spunky Monkey]

PC games are a strange one. Id like to see more realistic demos for them. How many times has a demo ran worse/not ran at all when the final game works fine?

It's a bit like the lottery, if you know what your getting into, it can be good fun, but ultimately is pointless and can waste a lot of money.

[Popo]

Downloading a game that you'd never pay money for is like borrowing a game from your friend.