Goemon

I’ve just save stated my way through High Seas Havoc on the Megadrive.

Jeez, what a brokenly difficult game it is.

I started out playing it normally but after a few sessions I moved to save states because it just got so ridiculous. I have no idea how they expected kids to be able to do it. You’re constantly being set up and most of it in the later levels will lead to instant death. On top of this you’ve got bosses that have tough patterns and take loads of hits to die.

I read through the manual and they mentioned the game having limited continues, however the game definitely has infinite continues. I think towards the end of development, post package creation, someone turned around and went “Er, guys, do you realise this thing is bloody impossible, right?!” and they switched to unlimited continues. Even with unlimited continues though, I feel like you’d give up at some bits though. With the last 2 bosses I was at the point where I was literally saving after every hit because it was so difficult to consistently dodge stuff.

You can bounce off enemies heads to kill them but in some cases you have to use the character’s kick (which is done by pressing jump again in the air) and positioning to be able to land this is quite strict (the hit box is in front of you, not below you) and can get you into all sorts of trouble. I guess as a kid who could only afford one game, this  game would have been ideal as it would have taken months and months to gain the consistency to be able to finish it. I certainly don’t have the patience or inclination to do it properly though, so I’ll settle for this save state run.

Zool

Feel like this character was touted as the computer version of Mario or Sonic, and he really, really wasn’t.

26 minutes ago, joffocakes said:

Here's someone else's example of Drive Rush allowing for otherwise impossible juggles with Kimberly.

 

It's cool to see the things you can do if you're fully prepared to spend all of your resources in one go. Damage is a wee bit high in that example because she has an active damage buff from having already used a level 3 Super plus her own health is low enough for the level 3 to be the higher-damage Critical Art.

 

I really want them to reveal Zangief or Manon soon. I wanna see some grabblers.

Nice!

My original thought after seeing drive rush allowing more juggles was could you do it more than once, so seeing this has pretty much confirmed that.

Really hope this kinda thing doesn’t get removed in the final version as the choice of multiple extends at the cost (and risk) of using more drive meter really adds to the meta. 

On 02/11/2022 at 11:05, Timmo said:

Some NioH fans would vilify me for this, but I’d skip the first game, for three main reasons:

 

• The second has a new move called a burst counter which adds another layer and actually makes the game a bit easier
• The second has soul cores which are a little like Pokemon, basically every monster you fight has a chance to drop one and each has a special move. You want to use these a lot
• The second has overall better balancing

 

Some people play the second game for thousands of hours. Thousands! The amount of content is insane.

 

There is DLC but I'd wait to see if you like the game first. If you do it adds a ludicrous amount of content.

 

There is a lot to learn but once you have it all down the game becomes way more friendly. Much of the difficulty fades when you learn the systems and how the game wants you to play. Use arrows a lot. Abuse the magic and ninjitsu as much as you want to - have fun with it. Remember that it isn't Souls! Dodging through an attack is nowhere near as useful. 

 

I would 100% agree to skipping the first for the reasons @Timmo suggests. You don’t lose anything for not playing the first, so no worries there. It’s not souls and it’s not Ninja Gaiden, it’s its own thing so just find your own way.

There’s tonnes to learn but there’s tonnes to do, so I wouldn’t worry about not knowing, understanding, being aware etc. just jump into the Nioh 2 thread and ask your questions. Someone will be on hand to answer.

It seems using Drive Rush it’s possible to extend combos that leave the opponent in a juggle state. This looks really cool!

I was being slightly facetious, I know they have done other good things.

At the same time their catalogue IS a mixed bag with Bayo 1 probably being their best work and when we get to the 3rd version of this flagship title, I don’t expect to be reading the comments I’m reading (or, unfortunately, I guess maybe I do… )

Where was ‘video game legend’ Kamiya while this was being made? Did he play through the game and go “yea, I’m happy with that” or did he just not give a shit?

The whole thing is pretty frustrating.

9 hours ago, dataDave said:

Some parts are funny, but I don’t know about fun. It’s all over the place. There’s no chance I’m ever going to be replaying any of these novelty sections for the grades, as the majority of them control like utter shit.

 

The Jeanne ‘stealth’ levels are also laughably poor.

 

I feel like I’m skipping 80% of the game in an effort to get back to the combat, but then when I’m back in control I find myself platforming through levels which have been lifted from a PSP-era Square Enix action RPG. Some of those fragmented stone sections where you have to collect the five parts do a really good job of highlighting how atrocious the platforming is (Chapter 7, Viola). When you fail one of those you have to go back to the stone to reactivate the challenge, which is fine, but once triggered it goes into really. slow. motion. to show you where it’s placing each of the pieces. Like you wouldn’t fucking know after failing twice. You can’t even skip that sequence. I spent a lot of time having to watch that one repeatedly last night because trying to precisely jump up a thin tree with branches that can fuck the physics and catapult you into space if you jump into them at a slightly wrong angle is fucking hard work, so is dealing with a grappling hook which activates if you hold the jump button just a tad longer than required, flinging you off in a random direction once it clips with the scenery. I felt like I was on an AVGN episode.

 

I might just trade my copy in while I get a good return on it. I honestly had more fun playing Korra.

The more I see from Platinum, the more I think they fluked the original Bayonetta. They seem to have no idea what made the first one great and seem more focused on making goofy over the top novelty sections over flushing out fighting mechanics.

Bailed on Baldo

The game is close to being great but unfortunately it’s being designed and built in a vacuum so it’s just not made with the user in mind. They wanted to make a Zelda clone, but tough! And in doing so they’ve just made everything a chore to do.

example puzzle

You’ve got a moving platform and 2 unreachable eyes

You pick up a throwable and wait for the platform

You get on the platform, throw it at the first eye…and a timer starts while you’re stuck on the platform

The timer runs while you’re still on the platform, when you the platform returns you start again

You get off and go pick up another throwable

You wait for the platform to come back

You got on the platform and put down the throwable item

You wait for the platform to return to the start

You get off the platform and pick up another throwable

You wait for the platform to come back

You get on the platform you throw the first throwable, you throw the 2nd throwable, nothing happens

You’re like WTF, you look around wondering what’s going on…and you spot a partially hidden 3rd eye in the environment!

The timer runs out

You start the whole process again.

This probably took me 20 mins to do and was zero fun.

You have map sellers dotted around, which fill in areas of the map…and they put them in places where you can’t easily get to them. I could see a guy and wandered around for like half an hour trying to find how to get to him, running into multiple dead ends, deaths to enemies, exits to other areas and yet never got to him. The ironic thing was this was to get a map of the area I’ve just spent half an hour wandering around figuring out.

You do get the satisfaction of figuring stuff out, which drives you on but in the end the chore to satisfaction ratio is just too lopsided

Nice info on the system here. 
 

3 minutes ago, merrychan said:

I love Ranger X and never realised this.

 

I immediately thought of the shafts of light in the cave level and how I run out of energy in there often

Bingo!

I wonder if, like @JamesC says, a lot of people give up on level 2 and it’s because you’re underground and you need to use the shafts of light to keep your mech powered otherwise you WILL run out of power and die.

I’m not sure what the manual tells you about this so it could be like a puzzle they want you to figure out, as it was a right light bulb moment for me when I realised.

17 minutes ago, Yasawas said:

 

That's a strong reason I'm not into modern games 

 

You've both sold me on giving it a proper go over the weekend though - it just looks and sounds too interesting not to. I do have, and was using, a six-button pad but a cursory go was impossible to coordinate so I'll take it a bit slower. Might even read the manual! It was after playing that I heard about the solar-powering mechanic that @Goemontouched on and it all started to sound like it might be more experiment than game, but I'm re-enthused now. 

Pacing is important. The levels aren’t long and it’s more about taking your time to tackle things

Chalk up another who loves Ranger X, it’s one of my favourites on the system.

It has loads of ideas that are well executed.

One that I didn’t realise for a while, is that the mech is solar powered. Doesn’t sound like much but they do use it, for example one level being in bright sunshine above the tree line and fully shaded below it. You’re forced into the shadows to destroy things but have to come up to recharge.
 

Also has some amazing graphics and music, I was listening to the OST just yesterday.

Only negative I would say is that it’s possibly a bit short.

1 hour ago, Oh Danny Boy said:

Oh yeah, the kickstarters have gone out. They are doing a preorder for general release atm. How does it play? Gets two thumbs up? Looks ambitious and feels like a proper game, which is what I look for in a homebrew release . 

TBH I haven’t had a chance to play it yet,

The Cursed Knight is already out, I have my copy sitting right here

I guess they sold their initial batch and are producing more.

Interesting take from Vesperarcade on why perfect parry has 50% scaling on damage. I didn’t like the idea of it at first but watching this it actually makes a lot of sense. 
 

They’ve essentially created a whole meta/mind game around being minus on your normals but having the threat of perfect parry when it becomes the opponents turn.

I really feel they’ve looked at things carefully with this game, I think it’s going to be amazing.

4 hours ago, Dig Dug said:

The thing with AI is eventually it cheats so much that you can manipulate it. The classic mortal kombat games have an entire speedrun scene because of how easily you can manipulate the AI.

This is ultimately what it comes to. Manipulating the AI to win, which in some cases can be a simple as (as @Superfamifreak mentions) neutral jumping and pressing hard kick. 
 

But is this fun?

Do people feel accomplished by doing this?

What are people learning by being forced to fight in this way?

I feel like the answers to all these questions are reasons NOT to play the game any more.

I’m probably asking too much as the people who made these old games didn’t have the knowledge that is known now for how a fight should play out. Still, I feel if fighting game AI he been made fairer/better it might have led to more people getting into fighting games.

My tastes have actually changed due to a lot of modern games being far too long.

I like to finish stuff but it’s rare that a game will hold my attention for longer than around 10 - 15 hours. So in 50-60 hour games I will normally stop playing before the end and it’s to the point now where I don’t buy a lot of modern games because I know I won’t stick it out.

I’d sooner play something retro or indie, where I know the time to finish is acceptable (to me) or I know and love the series. I actually use www.howlongtobeat.com to get an idea on how long something is.

So my finish rate is pretty high but it’s only because I’ve essentially stopped buying stuff that I likely won’t finish.

9 hours ago, Superfamifreak said:

If you think SF2 is hard, try Art of Fighting 2. It may have taken me 28 years, but at least now I can 1cc it. 

Neo Geo fighting games are the worst! LOL!

Relentless input reading.

I’ve played fighting games for 35 years, played online for 20 of those….and I can’t beat the first character in the likes of AoF2 or FFSpecial because the AI is so bollox.

On 15/10/2022 at 18:12, Gabe said:

Cheating AI is hardly the preserve of fighting games though, all games do it to varying degrees.

It depends what is considered cheating. A lot of games will do a bit of input reading but ultimately they are following a set of decisions within the rules of the game. I’m not an expert in the likes of sports games, so I’m not sure what they get up to but I do know that SF2 (and other fighting games) literally play by their own rules that fall outside of the game.

I’m not even talking about the obvious stuff like not charging moves that require it or reading inputs, it’s the more sinister stuff like making the AI invincible when it shouldn’t be, or stopping you from blocking to make you take a hit. This stuff is really cheap and can cause you to lose the game when it’s not your fault.

On 15/10/2022 at 18:19, acidbearboy said:

It's not just the AI that causes me to say that - I'm mid tier at best amongst my circle of friends who all grew up with SF2.

This is fair enough. What I’m getting at is the people that say they’re ‘no good at fighting games’ when all they had to play was cheating AI, which has basically gave them a warped, unrealistic view of the genre.

Fighting games are like a chess match of decisions, reads and reactions and when you can get into them, they’re amazing and have no limit of playability.

This was the crux of my potential thread, which basically led to the controversial opinion ‘fighting games, 1 player, are unplayable nonsense.’

11 minutes ago, Timmo said:

I'm more obsessed than ever after "finishing" it, because getting to the credits is barely starting! I'm now bulldozing through the second difficulty with a fun axe build which constantly regens health. I have read that the second difficulty is easiest and it feels incredibly satisfying to go through everything which caused me so many issues the first time. I've read that it ramps up in difficulty again on later difficulties, and then it looks like there's tons of endgame content. It's a ludicrously generous package and certainly for now it's my favourite videogame. One of my favourite things is how far you can push the builds, like having infinite ninjitsu, or constantly regenerating anima, or health which constantly tops up. And I know the deeper I get the more technical it will become.

I haven’t played for ages but yes, there’s plenty to do end game. It becomes about upping your gear as the legendary equipment unlocks when you finish it and the system for how you upgrade completely changes. After this there’s the urethral gear, which TBH ‘I never even got to.

I did enjoy messing with my legendary gear and would send ages obsessing over it, especially the moveable stats.

There’s also 2 lots of DLC to go through, which has plenty of new stuff as well as a new top difficulty.

The other thing is actually the coop, which is great fun too. I actually did another play through for like 100 hours basically jolly cooping the whole game with a new system/built set.

So glad you say it’s your top video game, it’s in my top games ever for sure. What kills me is the fact that the thread isn’t even 20 pages long

I’ve been very tempted to start a whole thread on the general topic of fighting game AI. 

The main reason being @acidbearboy’s comment “admittedly I’m not the best SF2 player around” and the countless other similar comments from people saying they’re not great at the game.

What people need to know is - the AI cheats, plain and simple.

What I find disheartening about this is the fact that people likely don’t play fighting games as much as they possibly should down to the simple fact that the AI is BS.

Port of Final Fight being worked on for the MD, have to say it looks really nice

14 hours ago, JLM said:

Yeah I absolutely think the one bar cost is the biggest issue with it. I quite like the threat of it against a cornered/burnt out opponent too, but tapping it through offense or just speculatively throwing it out shouldn't be so readily available. There are answers to it and we will all improve at dealing with it, but I'd rather not have to have to add "guy who does drive impact all the bleedin' time" to the list of online opponent archetypes. Like one answer to it is to just not really play footsies in the mid range and wait to see if they do it at random. I could do that, and I will I have to, but I'd like that to be something I'm looking for against an opponent who really needs a big swing in their favour and has to commit to it, rather than just someone who fishes for it whenever it pops into their head. 

 

 

One of my biggest concerns based on what I’ve seen was the fact that the safest option becomes “doing nothing” in footies. This move coupled with getting extra damage on a whiffed moves from a punish counter makes it VERY dangerous to stick something out. 
 

Everything else you’ve said makes it sound amazing though! When I watch it, it’s really what I was expecting SFV to be. It looks like it’s built on the subtleties of what made SFIV so appealing, so I’m pretty hopeful it’s gonna great.

Just as a slight link, I’m starting to wonder how grapplers are going to fair in the game. The only original character not shown is Zangief and I’m starting to think it’s because they’re struggling (a bit) to balance him. Parry, Drive Impact, Drive Rush AND a ranged command throw make it sound like Zangief will be a nightmare to try and keep at bay.

Interesting information on frame data here.

It seems now that most normals are negative on block, which is a huge change from SFV. No more sitting in lockdown while the opponent sits there spamming their +3, now you’ve got limited options or you’ve got to spend drive meter to get your plus.

Data mining of the PC version has started.

People have been using the recorded commentary to get an idea of what the new characters are about as move names and kinda what they do are mentioned. 
 

15 hours ago, Qazimod said:

I mean, this was me before I played through it last year. I really liked the setup with the Millenial Fair and everything, but it needs a little time to find it’s momentum and I dropped off before my options really opened up. I went back to it in 2021 and tried to be more patient, and it eventually became pretty compelling.  

So where does CT sit in your list of top JRPGs?