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"im sorry japanese guy!.......but your country's games are f------ terrible nowadays."


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#91 scottcr

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:01 AM

there is a comparison though with the 'approach' to the games... In general, the sheer mentalness of Japanese games makes them memorable. I've played countless western games that I've really enjoyed, but can barely remember... ironically, I think one that does come pretty close is Modern Warfare 2. I think it had strong characters and crazy plotting...

Can you imagine ANYTHING like Killer 7 coming out of the west?
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#92 Napole0n

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:01 AM

Western games, at least the non-indie ones, all seem to go for realism.

Are they? How do you define realistic? Personally I don't see much realism in games like Batman Arkham Asylum/City, Fallout or Uncharted even though they may have character models that don't look Nickelodeon cartoon rejects.
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#93 scottcr

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:07 AM

Fair point on Batman and Uncharted... U2 being one of my all time favourites.... but I see lots of realism and extremely dull characters in Fallout - part of why I thought it was an utter crushing bore of a game.
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#94 womblingfree

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:09 AM

I don't think I know a small interesting game that's come from the jap indie scene. Not defending a stupid generalisation.


Because they are mostly available on Japanese mobile/hand-held gaming platforms and/or will never get released outside of Japan.
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#95 Oh Danny Boy

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:12 AM

As far as I'm concerned, the best retail games this gen have all come from the top tier of Japanese developers.

Nintendo, Platinum Games, From Software and Capcom.

Even if the games the above produced aren't your thing, you can't argue about their quality, polish, inventiveness and art. Doing a like for like with their closest Western counterpart, and I'd say that the Japanese games easily beat their highly acclaimed Western equivalents. Bayonetta or Batman, Vanquish or Gears, Demons/Dark Souls or Skyrim, Street Fighter IV or MK, Nintendo or, well anything.


what pipe are you smoking?
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#96 Mr. Gerbik

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:12 AM

*
POPULAR

Can you imagine ANYTHING like Killer 7 coming out of the west?

Yes, definitely - especially if you stop thinking of 'the west' as just 'USA! USA! USA!' and consider the games coming out of Europe, especially the Eastern European ones. Games such a Stalker and Cryostasis have a very unique and weird atmosphere and in the case of Cryostasis especially, a very original premise and story which compares favourably on those terms with Japanese games like Killer 7 and suchlike. Anyone in this thread automatically dismissing games that are not Japanese as generic or realistic or unimaginative desperately needs to stop being so blinkered and realise there's a lot more to games development outside Japan than just yer average American big-budget warfare bro-shooter. I'm glad that I don't dismiss games based on ill-founded and stubborn prejudices on where it was made - I judge them on a game by game basis, and I love both Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and Tenchu: Stealth Assassins equally as two awesome stealth games, each with its own unique approach. Metal Gear Solid sucks dick when it comes to stealth, but that is just my opinion and not based on the game happening to be Japanese.
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#97 SPE

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:15 AM

what pipe are you smoking?


The pipe of truth.
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#98 scottcr

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:26 AM

I don't dismiss the games - where a game comes from doesn't bother me...I'll still play them... unless, of course it's from Nintendo and therefore it trumps everything purely by default...

I suppose I'm still reeling from my massive disappointment in Skyrim. That type of game has so much potential, but, for me at least, it's being taken in the wrong direction.
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#99 Mr. Gerbik

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:31 AM

I suppose I'm still reeling from my massive disappointment in Skyrim. That type of game has so much potential, but, for me at least, it's being taken in the wrong direction.

You should check out some of the stuff coming from indie devs, it's in the exact opposite direction of Skyrim and Mass Effect. Legend of Grimrock, Scott, Legend of Grimrock :wub:
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#100 scottcr

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:34 AM

You should check out some of the stuff coming from indie devs, it's in the exact opposite direction of Skyrim and Mass Effect. Legend of Grimrock, Scott, Legend of Grimrock :wub:


Oh don't worry - Legend of Grimrock is getting BOUGHT THE FUCK OUT OF.
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#101 Majora

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 10:50 AM

what pipe are you smoking?


Dark Souls is brilliant, though not a particularly apt comparison point to Skyrim other than that they're both fantasy games.
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#102 Napole0n

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:32 AM

I see lots of realism and extremely dull characters in Fallout - part of why I thought it was an utter crushing bore of a game.

I can imagine it didn't float your boat for a plethora of reasons (I would disagree of course, as Fallout 3 is one of my favourite games of all time), but realism? Really? A 50s retro-futuristic world full of nuclear fuelled cold war era pop culture pastiche, full of mutants, zombies and completely over the top characters?
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#103 scottcr

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:44 AM

Maybe realism was the wrong word... I loved the setting at first, but the characters and the story for me were very dull. It lost me when I got to the big ship...
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#104 Stanley

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:48 AM

Fallout 3 is ace, especially the battle system - dismemberment - yum. Oblivion - not so much.
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#105 Napole0n

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:53 AM

I loved the world and the gameplay, the main quest line was a bit weak but in Bethesda games that's such a small part of the game...
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#106 simms

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:56 AM

It's dull to hear people say every time that Non-Japanese games are all dull military/space shooters and nothing else. I usually think people who say this are MASSIVE DICKS.
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#107 Eats hoops and leaves

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:48 PM

You're all forgetting that most Japanese video games are actually training the youth for their life of salaryman servitude. If that doesn't float your boat then... gutted.
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#108 Straps

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:49 PM

You're all forgetting that most Japanese video games are actually training the youth for their life of salaryman servitude. If that doesn't float your boat then... gutted.


Expand pls.
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#109 Oh Danny Boy

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:53 PM

Expand pls.


Life is just like Pokemon you work hard to get a Mewtwo but instead you end up with fuckin' Pikachu
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#110 womblingfree

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:56 PM

Most Western games are shit. Most Japanese games are shit. Occassionaly both East and West make a great game.Play those.
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#111 Eats hoops and leaves

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 12:57 PM

Expand pls.


Do this.
Do that.
No, like this EXACTLY.
Now do that.
And this.
Right, this too.
I said EXACTLY LIKE THIS.
Cool, have this shiny thing.

Do this.
Do that.
No, like this EXACTLY.
Now do that.
And this.
Right, this too.
I said EXACTLY LIKE THIS.
Cool, have this [X] shiny thing.

Repeat x 100 where [X] = Big, Bigger, much bigger, super-big, tiny but colourful, small but colourful yadda yadda yadda [...] SS! Streetpass it, show it off.

Sequel time!
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#112 matt0

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:08 PM

If by this, do you mean who are the Japanese developers whose output is better than Bullfrog and Looking Glass, the answer is: all of them.

Clive is right in one regard. Japan has alway favoured -- hmm, what's a nice way to describe it -- unique controls. At least the bulk of Japan has finally seen the light and adopted dual analogue controls. There have been far too many control scheme horrors from Japan over the years. Kid Icarus being the latest.


I meant what Japanese studios would have made games as unique and technically ambitious as Populous or Syndicate in the early 90s or on such a grand scale as Terra Nova in the late 90s. Origin are another good studio to look at.

"Better" is largely down to personal tastes.
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#113 SPE

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:19 PM

I meant what Japanese studios would have made games as unique and technically ambitious as Populous or Syndicate in the early 90s or on such a grand scale as Terra Nova in the late 90s. Origin are another good studio to look at.

"Better" is largely down to personal tastes.


Again, youre choosing really odd games to prove a point. Only a fraction of Western games could stand up to the standard of 80s and 90s Japanese output. Inventivly, technically, artistically and mechanically, Japan was so far ahead of the curve for all of last century. For every Populous, during the same period, there are hundreds of Japanese console and arcade games that eclipsed their Western counterparts. Japan invented so many of the genres we take for granted.
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#114 matt0

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:43 PM

Again, youre choosing really odd games to prove a point. Only a fraction of Western games could stand up to the standard of 80s and 90s Japanese output. Inventivly, technically, artistically and mechanically, Japan was so far ahead of the curve for all of last century. For every Populous, during the same period, there are hundreds of Japanese console and arcade games that eclipsed their Western counterparts. Japan invented so many of the genres we take for granted.


I'm choosing very specific games for their dynamic environments (Magic Carpet), AI (Terra-nova specifically) and open ended sandbox design (most of Bullfrogs output, Ultima 6+7). Things that to the best of my knowledge hadn't been in done in Japanese games at the time and are still very rarely done now.

I agree with you Japan were far ahead in arcade and straight forward action genres (and their take on strategy and RPGs was different enough that you can't make a straight comparison) and I'm not saying that Western games are better but at the high end technical side of things - physics modelling, AI and dynamic environments the west has always had an edge.

It doesn't necessarily make for better games but still - credit where credits due!
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#115 Gique

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:46 PM

I can't believe the guy who directed the cutscenes for Silent Hill and Silent Hill 2 now works at EA making fucking James Bond games.


He doesn't, he quit about 7 years ago , but you can understand why he bailed on konami, I hope
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#116 SPE

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:50 PM

I still don't agree. One of the stand out things about Japanes games in the 80s, 90s and even 00s was the attention to detail, technical excellence and art design. Are you saying that the Model 1 and 2 games has worse physics than niche Euro PC games of the same time?

Really, the first Western game that trumped Japan on all fronts - graphicslly, artisticlly, techncially - was Halo CE. But that is still true now, it just trumped gaming.
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#117 scottcr

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:52 PM

It's dull to hear people say every time that Non-Japanese games are all dull military/space shooters and nothing else. I usually think people who say this are MASSIVE DICKS.


I HAVE a MASSIVE DICK... in fact, it's so MASSIVE that, from afar, I just look like a MASSIVE DICK
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#118 Gique

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:55 PM

You also have to realse how Japanese people are utterly obsessesed with stats and percentages, every ui I work on ends up in a gunfight between me and the designer where I want t cut out irrelevant stats or hard to follow info.. The last battle I won involved an item statistic that read as 'armour weakness' (positive) x percent .. After weeks of debate it was reduced to 'armour strength' 0 - 5 stars.. This is why Japanese ui design sucks a lot of the time.. The rote memorization method of education is a serious stumbling block when it comes to info graphics in japan
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#119 Gique

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:58 PM

The post mid eighties were when Japanese companies had tons of cash, even the anime industry was at it most creative from the mid eighties to the early nineties, this is why that period had a lot of cool and groundbreaking stuff, nowadays it's just as risk averse as any other countries game industry.. They just stick with what they now, which in itself is another typically Japanese problem

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#120 mushashi

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:00 PM

They have a hollow culture? And that's why their games look "the way they do"? You're going to have to clarify that one!


Here is the article I mentioned:

http://neojaponisme....lture-part-one/


While looking for it on the Google, I stumbled upon this recent interview with the Japanese artist, Takashi Murakami, where he has a rather damning appraisal of the state of Japanese pop culture, I've seen quite a few articles discussing the increasingly moribund state of the Japanese economy and the effect this seems to be having on it's people, which does back up some of the ideas put forth by the article above.

http://ajw.asahi.com.../AJ201203100024

Some quotes:

Q: Japanese animation and manga are being praised abroad now under the theme of "Cool Japan." How do you feel about your role as standard-bearer for that trend?

A: No one overseas talks about "Cool Japan." That is a lie and rumor.

It was intentionally created to satisfy the pride of the Japanese and is nothing more than ad copy to allow public funds to go to advertising companies.

While Japan's manga and animation are slowly being understood abroad, even if the cultural background and context may be difficult to comprehend, it is only being accepted by a small group of fanatics. It is nowhere near a level of becoming a business, so there is nothing to be especially excited about.

I have gained attention abroad as an individual artist named Takashi Murakami, and I have no connection whatsoever with "Cool Japan."


Q: Why has the Japanese government tried to sell such elements of "Cool Japan" as animation, toys and fashion to overseas markets?

A: That only profits a small number of people who work for advertising companies.

None of the money goes back to the artists and such efforts are a waste of taxpayers' money.

Now the animation and video game sectors are losing market share to other nations, and with mergers and consolidation continuing the situation is a catastrophe.

Personnel is not being developed because not only is the pay for creators low, but much of the work is being subcontracted out to foreign nations.

Those sectors are now in the process of a decline in prestige.


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