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#541 Hexx

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:29 PM

When does the awesome start? We're five episodes in and it's pretty good already, not great but MUCH better then TNG and Voyager were at this point. To be honest we were not expecting it to be amazing during season 1, I mean Buffy is one of my favourite shows and the first season and a half of that is basically shit - I understand that it takes some time for shows to fall into place.

Having said that, the characters are very good in this. I like Odo, Quark and that Cardassians Tailor guy so far as well as O'Brian of course. We watched an episode last night about some chameleon character being chased (foxhunting style) which was very good. I'd like to see an episode about Dax. Next episode has Q in it!


If you like it already, especially for the characters - then you'll love the whole thing. From memory its' the middle of season 1 that has some very dubious episodes

The characters are all pretty great in DS9 - there's some I didn't like/get on with, but they all had strong characteristics and traits. There were no vacuous non-entities like Voyager (Harry Kim...he's...um...young? And he plays the Clarinet. And...um....he's an Ensign..)

Fun fact - Garek (the tailor) was originally going to be a one off appearance, but he did so well (and fans liked him so much) that they brought him back. He appears more and more often as the show goes on. I don't think he every became a "full" cast member though.

As great as DS9's main cast/characters are, they regular guest/recurring characters are generally all well developed and acted

Sometimes they have the same actor play different characters in different alien make up in different episodes. If you see "Jeffrey Combs" in the guest stars you're generally in for a good episode :) He ended up playing two different characters in the same episode at one point :)

One other thing, I loved the fact that Cardassians were in it! These are my favourite aliens in all of Star Trek, are they in the show regularly?


Yes. Less so at the start, the the political situation with (and within) Cardassia develops into one of the strong plot points of the entire series (without spoiling too much). You'll have met Gul Dukat so far - he's another awesome recurring guest star with a good arc.

Keep us updated on your progress please. Given your questions you seem to know nothing about the series/where it's going - if you can stay spoiler free I really would.
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#542 Eats hoops and leaves

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:34 PM

When does the awesome start? We're five episodes in and it's pretty good already, not great but MUCH better then TNG and Voyager were at this point. To be honest we were not expecting it to be amazing during season 1, I mean Buffy is one of my favourite shows and the first season and a half of that is basically shit - I understand that it takes some time for shows to fall into place.

Having said that, the characters are very good in this. I like Odo, Quark and that Cardassians Tailor guy so far as well as O'Brian of course. We watched an episode last night about some chameleon character being chased (foxhunting style) which was very good. I'd like to see an episode about Dax. Next episode has Q in it!


Season 4 is when shit hits the fan.
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#543 Meh

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:38 PM

Naah, the shit hits the fan earlier than that.

Spoiler

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#544 Hexx

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:43 PM

Naah, the shit hits the fan earlier than that.

Spoiler


To be fair

Spoiler

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#545 Eats hoops and leaves

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 01:46 PM

Spoiler

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#546 Pob

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 02:28 PM

Naah, the shit hits the fan earlier than that.

Spoiler


Spoiler

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#547 Charles

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 02:58 PM

Fun fact - Garek (the tailor) was originally going to be a one off appearance, but he did so well (and fans liked him so much) that they brought him back. He appears more and more often as the show goes on. I don't think he every became a "full" cast member though.


Ironically, I thought that Garek, through never a full cast member, appeared in loads of episodes in Season 6 and 7 so you can imagine my surprise when he was actually only in about 6 episodes of each season. I put it down to the best episodes, and of course the ones you re-watch the most featuring Garek so it gives you the impression he appears more frequently than he does!
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#548 Meh

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 03:08 PM

Spoiler


Pfft, whatevs, yo.
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#549 Dandy_Sephy

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:23 PM

Ironically, I thought that Garek, through never a full cast member, appeared in loads of episodes in Season 6 and 7 so you can imagine my surprise when he was actually only in about 6 episodes of each season. I put it down to the best episodes, and of course the ones you re-watch the most featuring Garek so it gives you the impression he appears more frequently than he does!

Same for people like Winn. But then, recurring 'minor' characters in Trek have a history of becoming more than their infrequent appearances would suggest, DS9 just made it much easier to do. A sign of how interesting a character is to write for often shows in the steadily increasing appearance rate. Some of the regular cast don't get the sort of writing some of the guests do!
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#550 Garibaldi

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:23 PM

Spoiler


Or something like that anyway.


Some fun speculation on that bit ( warning, last season DS9 spoilers ):

Spoiler

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#551 Lorfarius

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:38 PM

Some fun speculation on that bit:

Spoiler


Jesus never thought of that before! Makes perfect sense.
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#552 mdn2

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 06:17 PM

S1 of DS9 has The Storyteller, which in my opinion is worse than anything Voyager came up with. Its just terrible.

Fortunately, S2 onwards is pretty much ace. I think the show peaked in S3, 4 and 5, but even after that has some real high points. 'In The Pale Moonlight', for example. :wub:
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#553 Dandy_Sephy

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 06:23 PM

I think hands down, the three most mentioned specific episodes of Ds9 on this forum are "Duet", "The visitor" and "In the pale moonlight" (all mentioned this week for the 50th time). I don't think it's far fetched to cite them as the best of DS9.
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#554 mdn2

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:04 PM

While I personally think 'The Visitor' is Trek at its finest, I would rank a fair few episodes over 'Duet', even though I do love that too. The two parter 'The Die Is Cast/Improbable Cause' is possibly my favourite in the shows run. I love 'The Quickening' too, because it's incredibly bleak - particularly for Star Trek. And 'Its Only A Paper Moon' as well, because, after Garak, Nog is my favourite character in the show.

I think I may attempt a rewatch of the show soon myself. I'm currently rewatching S5 of Babylon 5 and all this posting about DS9 has got me interested again. Particularly as S5 of Babylon 5 is so shit.
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#555 PC Master Race

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:34 PM

When does the awesome start?

Spoiler

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#556 Haribo

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:27 PM

Very difficult not to click any of those spoilers.

We're just over halfway through season one (it is indeed short) and it is very bleh right now - not great but not awful, just there. Still much better then Voyager was at this point and far superior to the first season of TNG but that is more of a cuss towards those shows then any kind of praise towards DS9. I know it gets amazing, but I can totally understand why anybody might stop watching at this point. If i hadnt sat through the shit that was season one/two of TNG (or the shitty first three seasons of Voyager) to get to the excellence that came later I probably would have given up by now! This season does require a lot of patience.
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#557 Lorfarius

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 08:38 AM

Just keep thinking you almost there! Hang on, you won't be disappointed.
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#558 Haribo

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 02:49 PM

Just keep thinking you almost there! Hang on, you won't be disappointed.


Haha, it's not that bad - like I say Voyager and in particular TNG were both much worse at this point in their lives and I ended up loving them :)
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#559 Lorfarius

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 02:58 PM

Voyager? Quit now.
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#560 Haribo

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 03:03 PM

Voyager? Quit now.


It had its problems for sure (NEELIX) but I think it got a lot better towards the end, once it stopped being the Seven of Nine show.
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#561 Meh

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:18 PM

Season 7 of Voyager was so painful; it's the only season of Trek I've not watched entirely.

I don't ever recall it stop being obsessed with 7of9.
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#562 Lorfarius

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 11:19 AM

It had its problems for sure (NEELIX) but I think it got a lot better towards the end, once it stopped being the Seven of Nine show.


That never happens! They couldn't even get her story right at the end, shoeing in a love story with Chakotay last minute ignoring all previous episodes and character development.
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#563 Haribo

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:39 AM

So we (myself and Grannysmiths) have finished watching DS9 season one, and like I have repeatedly said it is better then TNG & Voyager were during their first season. Still mostly rubbish, though - there were only a handful of good episodes in the whole season. My favourites:

Emissary - An excellent pilot that really set everything up and introduced the characters well.
Captive Pursuit - Tosk the chameleon makes friends with O'Brian
The Forsaken - I really like Odo and this episode focused on him. Has the distinction of being the first good use of Lwaxanna Troi.
Duet - First episode where Kira doesn't act like a dickhead. Harris Yulin was excellent as the imprisoned Cardassian.
In the hands of the Prophets - Best episode of the season for me. Everything came together well, good plot, and it was very well acted.

There were good parts in other episodes of course, but they were just certain scenes and not enough to recommend a whole episode. My favourite character is Odo, followed by O'Brian and Quark. Everybody else is decent with the only characters I hate being Kira (whining all of the time, ugly, shit haircut and awful costume) and Doctor Bashier due to his terrible acting and the fact he's not the EMH. Dax is a really interesting character that isn't expanded on enough. Lots of the season was quite boring to be honest, just bleh. I was disappointed at the lack of Cardassians because they are the best remaining Trek villains (considering Voyager ruined the Borg) and seemed to be a major part of the DS9 story, but barely showed up. I really enjoyed the scenes with the Tailor but he never appeared again. It's clear that the show didn't have a huge budget at this point.

Hopefully 'In the hands of he Prophets' is an indication of where the show is going, if so I am looking forward to more like that. 4/10
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#564 MDY

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:51 AM

I don't think you have too much to worry about there.. :)
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#565 Dandy_Sephy

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 08:52 AM

It's clear that the show didn't have a huge budget at this point.

Building the Promenade will do that.
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#566 Charles

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:02 AM

I think your views on Kira and Bashir will change as the show goes on. Certainly, DS9 has a very strong ensemble but Bashir is a very good character by the end with some brilliant episodes which focus on him.

Also, I always felt that Sisko isn't very well written or acted in the early seasons. From Season 3 and 4 though he becomes a fantastic character.

Looking forwards, S2 is definitely a step up in quality, S3 even more so. Once you reach S4 though you've got three fantastic years to look forward to with S7 still being very good but not quite matching Seasons 4-6.
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#567 Hexx

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:12 AM

I don't think you have too much to worry about there.. :)


Yeah given what you've said, I think you'll love the whole thing.

I never warmed to Bashir too much, but he got better as the show went on.
I'd be amazing if you didn't do an about turn on Kira by the end.
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#568 Lorfarius

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:20 AM

I think the problem with Kira in the beginning is you can actually see her learning to act :lol: She's too confrontational and shouts at everything with the worst frustrated blurting in an angry way, often ruining lines. But as she settles into the role over the next year or two she vastly improves and by the end of the series shes as good as the rest.
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#569 Dandy_Sephy

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:26 AM

I think the problem with Kira in the beginning is you can actually see her learning to act :lol: She's too confrontational and shouts at everything with the worst frustrated blurting in an angry way, often ruining lines. But as she settles into the role over the next year or two she vastly improves and by the end of the series shes as good as the rest.

The thing is, being confrontational and shouting at everything is what her character is supposed to be.

For example, in "the Emissary", she makes it pretty clear she doesn't want to be on the station, hates the federation for not helping Bajor and their treaty with the Cardassians, and that continues for most of the first season. In "Rapture" she makes a passionate statement about Sisko's influence in changing her opinion. I'd say she was acting how she was told to act, and that her character simply mellows out in general.

I think your views on Kira and Bashir will change as the show goes on. Certainly, DS9 has a very strong ensemble but Bashir is a very good character by the end with some brilliant episodes which focus on him.


Bashir is a cheeky sod the first couple of years, but then after that plot twist regarding his upbringing he just becomes ridiculously up himself.
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#570 Eighthours

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:01 PM

I was disappointed at the lack of Cardassians because they are the best remaining Trek villains (considering Voyager ruined the Borg) and seemed to be a major part of the DS9 story, but barely showed up. I really enjoyed the scenes with the Tailor but he never appeared again. It's clear that the show didn't have a huge budget at this point.

Hopefully 'In the hands of he Prophets' is an indication of where the show is going, if so I am looking forward to more like that. 4/10


You will be much happier in later seasons, then!

The show actually had a bigger budget than TNG right from the start. $400k an episode more, if I recall correctly. $1.9 million versus $1.5 million.
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