Wiper

The terrifying, never-ending Star Trek thread

1651 posts in this topic

Just watch all of it because even at its very worst its better than most of what passes for sci fi these days...


Including Babylon 5


The films are amazingly fun. Except insurrection, that's shit
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[quote name='Venice Cull' timestamp='1325535953' post='8360599']
Unlikely, Paramount ensured that it was basically a new start for those who had never seen DS9 before, or those millions who had stopped watching by the end of the first season.

Nerd war! Nerd war!
[/quote]

Have you even seen it? It's not a new start, a new dynamic perhaps with Worf but there's a hell of a lot of back story you need to know. You can't just run in there fresh with those characters without seeing a big chunk of S3.
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I can't believe some of the guff in here about DS9. Following Pob's suggestion I checked out 'Whispers' today, and it's instantly become one of my favourite episodes of the entire series. The first few season have their fare share of gems, and a lot of the other episodes are interesting if only to see how different character relationships evolve.
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[quote name='Pob' timestamp='1325518445' post='8360100']
Even Season 2 has some crackers, with the crew properly settled in by that point (TNG didn't achieve this until season 3, the same time they ditched the spandex). DS9 Season 2 has one of my favourite episodes - Whispers - the one where O'Brien gets back from some trip and everyone is treating him with suspicion.
[/quote]

Wow that's in S2? It's such an original twist on an old cliche. Fantastic episode. I might watch it today actually.
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For anyone considering revisiting S1 of TNG, I can heartily recommend Wil Wheaton's book [url="http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/memories-of-the-future---volume-1/6171588"]Memories of the Future.[/url]

He's only done vol 1 so far - Encounter at Farpoint > Datalore - but there's a loving (and often brutally honest) synopsis of each episode and plenty of really nice behind the scenes anecdotes. And it being Wil Wheaton, it's [i]really[/i] funny.
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Just took a look, its £6 on iOS, with a free sample. Thanks for the suggestion :hat:

Second page of the proper text and I just let out a hearty lol. Good start!

[Spoiler]Cock block![/spoiler]
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[quote name='womblingfree' timestamp='1325531849' post='8360438']
:quote:

Get the first series at least on blu-ray or you're missing out on some of the finest TV sci-fi ever made. In fact, I'm off to Amazon to take this advice myself...Then re-watching TNG, DS9 and Voyager. :)
[/quote]
Yup, love the original series, just rounding it off now and watched the original movie last night. Which wasn't so good, but then it's Khaaaaaaan tonight. :)
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[quote name='Neg_Stalker' timestamp='1325552469' post='8361030']
Wow that's in S2? It's such an original twist on an old cliche. Fantastic episode. I might watch it today actually.
[/quote]

Having just remembered the twist, I realise I was actually getting two episodes conflated in my mind (Visionary - season 3 - another "what the fuck is happening to O'Brien?" episode). This time he keeps jumping five minutes into the future). Whispers is better, though.

Also, there is no way that season 4 is a 'reboot' of DS9. That implies that they junk a load of stuff and start from scratch, whereas in fact all that happens is a new character joins the cast, Sisko's hair moves from his head to his chin, and a major new arc kicks off. I remember it being described as DS9's "make or break" season, but it's still a natural continuation of what's come before. The season 2 finale is more of a kick up the arse.
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The obvious answer is to start with Encounter At Farpoint (the TNG pilot ep), and then we can provide a list of Season 1 and 2 eps that are worth watching. I mean, personally I'd watch them all but that's... what... 48 eps of stuff that's far from all gold. Then Wiper can watch everything from Season 3 onwards.

So! From memory, here's a list of watchable Season 1 and 2 eps:

[b]Season 1:[/b]
Encounter At Farpoint
The Last Outpost (solely because it introduces the Ferengi. Thinking of DS9 here...)
Where No One Has Gone Before
The Battle
Hide And Q
The Big Goodbye
Datalore
11001001
Coming of Age (links in with the later episode, Conspiracy)
Heart of Glory
Skin of Evil (it's kinda shit, but you know why he needs to watch this one...)
Conspiracy
The Neutral Zone

[b]Season 2:[/b]
The Child
Elementary Dear Data
A Matter of Honor
The Measure of a Man
Contagion
Time Squared
Q Who
The Emissary
Peak Performance

Any advance on this?
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[quote name='AN_D_K' timestamp='1325535447' post='8360577']
"Something I've not seen is shit despite everyone saying otherwise"

Good work.
[/quote]

All of seasons 1 and 2, most of 3. Think I gave up towards the end of 3, so little of it is memorable, but I do recall Sisko trying to hump that bird from 24.
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[quote name='sandman' timestamp='1325587504' post='8361361']
All of seasons 1 and 2, most of 3. Think I gave up towards the end of 3, so little of it is memorable, but I do recall Sisko trying to hump that bird from 24.
[/quote]

Yeah, but pretty much everyone here is saying that's after that is where it starts to get better.
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I've always meant to watch all of TNG and this thread has finally made me do it. I'm mostly interested in Patrick Stewart so was not going to bother with any of TOS, but is there a couple of eps I really must see before I start? Sorry if this has been answered, I've read this really quickly!
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[quote name='Beta' timestamp='1325545932' post='8360891']
I can't believe some of the guff in here about DS9. Following Pob's suggestion I checked out 'Whispers' today, and it's instantly become one of my favourite episodes of the entire series. The first few season have their fare share of gems, and a lot of the other episodes are interesting if only to see how different character relationships evolve.
[/quote]

Strangely enough I did the same (Sky Anytime have the first 3 seasons of DS9 on demand at the moment). Despite surely having seen it before I had no idea of the ending and it genuinely surprised me.

An excellent episode so thanks Pob for the recommendation. In fact, looking at the Season 2 episode list there are a lot of really good ones there so I'd really recommend not skipping DS9's early seasons. Whilst you can skip TNG Season 1 and 2 without too many problems, DS9 early seasons really feed into the overly story arc. DS9 season 1 may be the most uneven of the seasons but I also watched Duet yesterday and it is also one of DS9's best episodes so would be a shame to miss it out.

As others have said, you could start at Season 4 but you'd be missing a lot of the good stuff (Season 3 is consistently nothing but good) and Season 4 is nothing like the reset button it is being made out to be. It still massively relies on the back story built up to that point but just adds a few elements to it.

With TNG, I'd be tempted to start at Season 3. Even as an avid fan I rarely revisit Seasons 1 and 2 and they are always pretty bad when I do. Voyager is a strange one. It's not awful by any means but it is also far from excellent and straddles average for most of its run. It does have some excellent episodes, and I'm not sure it ever reaches the poorness of TNG Season 1 and 2, but it is largely uninspired for a lot of its episodes and the characters are by far the blandest of any Trek series (although Enterprise gives it a run for its money). It's very popcorn TV and in fairness I regularly record the off episode being played on Sky Atlantic and can enjoy re-watching it (Scorpion's on today I noticed which is a decent episode). But it's never as good as either TNG or DS9, the lack of a proper story arc really hurts it and it is just inconsistent throughout its run. I also think the series perhaps gets too much flack because compared to what it could have been it is a complete let down. The premise of Voyager is fantastic but sadly it just never lives up to what could have been which is perhaps Voyager's biggest failing.

ENT Seasons 1 and 2 are pretty bland to be fair but are more or less watchable for the most part. Season 3 is terrific though and I would certainly recommend watching that and then Season 4. I've always thought that had we seen more seasons of ENT then it may have had a better legacy than it ended up with (int he same way that I don''t think we would hold TNG to the same regard it if had been canceled at the end of Season 4).

TLDR: Watch all of DS9, Seasons 3-7 of TNG (probably start with TNG as it will lay a lot of the back story that will be helpful for DS9) and then decide if you want to tackle one or both of VOY/ENT. I'm not overly knowledgeable on TOS but it really stands apart from the modern series and you won't gain/lose much by watching it or not watching it.
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[quote name='AN_D_K' timestamp='1325589501' post='8361415']
Yeah, but pretty much everyone here is saying that's after that is where it starts to get better.
[/quote]

To be fair, if he has watched Season 1-3 of DS9 and not enjoyed them then he's probably not going to enjoy the remaining seasons. Whilst undoubtedly DS9 hit its high between S4-6 if you haven't enjoyed Season 1-3 then I doubt 4-6 will change your mind, however awesome they are. Horses for courses really, I think the general consensus from most people who have seen all the series is that DS9 stands head and shoulders above the others.
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Actually, Balance Of Terror from the original series is worth watching, if you only get around to watching one.
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Star Trek is about exploring and sexytime for Kirk

Next Gen, whilst it has a lot of very good episodes, isn't really about exploration and is more about being an intergalactic minibus which ferries dignitaries and cargo to various outposts.

DS9 is decent and if you liked the reboot of Battlestar Galactica, it's interesting insofar as you get to see where a lot of the storylines came from.

Voyager - Back to exploration and there are a lot of decent episodes but the characters are almost universally irritating. And it created one of the greatest crimes in science fiction in the Fairhaven episodes.

Enterprise - Water Polo, a ship's dog and men in boiler suits being beaten up by aliens every week. The fourth series has a few comparative high points though, but in the same way as a thimble full of water is a merciful relief after drinking 3 pints of sick.

For a lot of people, Next Gen [i]is[/i] Star Trek but there is a lot of it. I'd start with the first series of the original.
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[quote name='Dandy_Sephy' timestamp='1325505493' post='8359846']
I don't think anyone would argue about Shades of Grey. You need to see Wesley to understand the hatred for him, thats part of the experience. You need to see the transition from beardless to bearded Riker for much the same reason.
[/quote]
This is my point exactly; I totally agree with Dandy Sephy on this. You can't just watch the "best bits". Well, naturally, you can - but I really don't think you should do that. It depends on what you want, though. If you just want to watch some good TV, then fine, but if you want to "get" Trek, I really think you need to take the bad with the good.
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The Next Generation was always my area of expertise -- my favourite show as a young teenager. I'm sort of looking forward to the blu-rays, but I'm also hesitant. For me, Star Trek works when it's on Sky at a regular time each weekday. That's how I watched it when I was 13 years old, and that's still how I'd prefer to watch it today. I can't quite imagine sitting down and watching TNG boxsets. They are all episodes I've seen a hundred times before, and there isn't much (or any) plot continuation between them, so I don't think I can devote my time to properly watching a boxset. Also, there's a big leap in style and quality between the first 2 seasons and the rest. That's not to say seasons 1 and 2 are awful -- there are some interesting episodes -- but it's bizarre how seasons 1 and 2 have dated horribly yet seasons 3-7 are timeless.

Deep Space 9 is mixed for me. It feels like I've watched [i]most[/i] of it over the years, but actually I think I grew bored and stopped watching before the Dominion arc began. I heard that DS9 had become awesome in later seasons, but by that point I wasn't familiar with the arc, so I only dipped in and out of BBC2 broadcasts. So perhaps I should sit down with boxsets of seasons 4 - 7. My only memory of the last season is that Ezri Dax was fucking delicious (but everyone hates her).

Voyager... ah, grey boring reliable Voyager. Never terrible, never great, it's just [i]there[/i]. Early seasons have too many "space anomaly of the week" episodes, then later seasons nerf the Borg. Seven of Nine has very tight clothes but a moose face. Add your own lesbian subtext between Seven and Janeway to liven up the proceedings.

Enterprise... grey boring Enterprise. Apparently the last couple of seasons got fun, but I wasn't watching by then.

The Original Series is a weird one. There's certainly some important science fiction there (rather like some episodes of The Twilight Zone are essential viewing). But there's also a lot of... how to describe it?... goofy 60s shite. I just can't take TOS seriously. They look like they're wearing pajamas and eye shadow, and they end up in medieval dungeons half the time. So I would suggest watching a handful of the acclaimed episodes only.
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I might give this a go. I really loved the good bits of BSG, I loved the original series when I was a kid, and I liked the First Contact movie. I'm a little bit reluctant though: my memory of what I've seen in passing when they originally aired is that the shows weren't so good, with lots of filler. And there's a heck of a lot of it to watch.

Can someone recommend a few sample episodes as a taster? Nothing that will spoil a big story arc if I decide I like it, but a few things that make the show look good, and will persuade my missus it's worth giving this a shot.

How good are we talking? I'm not expecting Sopranos/Deadwood/Wire good, but does it bear comparison with BSG or the other decent modern US dramas?
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[quote name='Graham_S' timestamp='1325597676' post='8361746']
How good are we talking? I'm not expecting Sopranos/Deadwood/Wire good, but does it bear comparison with BSG or the other decent modern US dramas?
[/quote]

It's StarTrek basically - it's own thing, so I think comparisons with other TV shows are unfair.

The Wire never did a completely mindbending paradoxical theoretical physics episode involving shooting an inverse tachyon pulse into the same quadrant of space, at three different time periods, causing an anti-time reaction to flow backwards through the space/time continuum, wiping out humanity in the process, for example.

Your missus will hate it. It really is nerd porn, but with beautiful character development.
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[quote name='Charles' timestamp='1325591312' post='8361464']
With TNG, I'd be tempted to start at Season 3. Even as an avid fan I rarely revisit Seasons 1 and 2 and they are always pretty bad when I do.
[/quote]
On the otherhand I'll quite happily watch an entire Trek show over a few weeks and will skip less than 10 episodes across TNG/DS9/Voy combined, and those are the "worst.episodes.ever" to coin a phrase. Only one of those episodes is in the first two seasons of TNG (Shades of Grey), one is DS9 (Time's Orphan) and the rest are probably all Voyager.
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Yay, I randomly checked my local library and they have TNG season one on DVD on the shelf! I'll get started tonight. :D
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[quote name='Graham_S' timestamp='1325597676' post='8361746']
I might give this a go. I really loved the good bits of BSG, I loved the original series when I was a kid, and I liked the First Contact movie. I'm a little bit reluctant though: my memory of what I've seen in passing when they originally aired is that the shows weren't so good, with lots of filler. And there's a heck of a lot of it to watch.

Can someone recommend a few sample episodes as a taster? Nothing that will spoil a big story arc if I decide I like it, but a few things that make the show look good, and will persuade my missus it's worth giving this a shot.

How good are we talking? I'm not expecting Sopranos/Deadwood/Wire good, but does it bear comparison with BSG or the other decent modern US dramas?
[/quote]

TNG or DS9?

It's probably worth trying out some standalone episodes because that best represents the series rather (especially TNG which doesn't do much in the way of complex arcs). I mean, if you want to see the best of TNG then the commonly-accepted "best episodes evar!" is a two-parter from slap in the middle called The Best Of Both Worlds. It's the first proper Borg story. But then you'd miss out on the way the Borg are teased in the earlier episodes (not a huge problem, though).

Also for TNG, try Yesterday's Enterprise for something quite nerdy and exciting, and The Inner Light for something that shows off the excellent characterisation (i.e your wife is more likely to dig it). These are two of the best, I'm sure everyone will agree.

For DS9, the aforementioned 'Whispers' is a great standalone episode. 'The Visitor' might hook your wife in - see if it makes her cry. The season 4 opener, The Way Of The Warrior, is a good taste of where DS9 ends up, but it'll spoil a load of what happens in the brilliant season 3.

If you or Wiper do embark on this, we'll expect regular updates and episode reviews.
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