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League (1v1) Discussion


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#1 tyler

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 04:57 PM

New rules and guidelines for the 1v1 league are announced in the Steering Group Decisions thread but there was no place for discussion or feedback. So here you go.

Feel free to give feedback or make any suggestions on improving the league here. From time to time new ideas are discussed and then voted upon by the steering group.
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#2 redbloodcel

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 02:06 AM

A question - you mentioned when Lee dropped out that his results went to the pools panel due to him having played over half of his games, why do you do that rather than just remove them all?
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#3 pompey88

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 08:59 AM

So basically the third rule about OTP:

You can suggest to play in OTP, but if the other player says no, you will get screwed if it goes to the pools panel?
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#4 SaintM

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 09:29 AM

A question - you mentioned when Lee dropped out that his results went to the pools panel due to him having played over half of his games, why do you do that rather than just remove them all?

Path of least disruption really.

These things usually come to a head in the final stages of a season, so removing results would directly affect the majority of teams at a late stage. The pools panel can never give total accuracy of course, but it's based on the raw data so should be vaguely representative.
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#5 Poppalarge

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 12:19 PM

Path of least disruption really.

These things usually come to a head in the final stages of a season, so removing results would directly affect the majority of teams at a late stage. The pools panel can never give total accuracy of course, but it's based on the raw data so should be vaguely representative.


I can see why you do it that way but, for people leaving the league, isn't it easier and more fair to just remove any traces of the person from the league. Meaning that the final standing is against people who are actually in the league.
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#6 SaintM

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 12:42 PM

I can see why you do it that way but, for people leaving the league, isn't it easier and more fair to just remove any traces of the person from the league. Meaning that the final standing is against people who are actually in the league.

No, not really.
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#7 Wincho

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 12:47 PM

A question - you mentioned when Lee dropped out that his results went to the pools panel due to him having played over half of his games, why do you do that rather than just remove them all?

I can see why redbloodcel would want the results removed rather than the remaining fixtures going to pools panel. If he had the two losses he registered against Lee removed he'd have a decent chance of winning the league!
Nice try Bloodseed! ;)
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#8 Poppalarge

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 01:08 PM

No, not really.


Fair enough, is that down to the work required on the site?
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#9 Fry Crayola

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 01:19 PM

The problem with it is usually down to the other eleven players in the league who recorded different results against the team that left, and then the old arguments start up about which is fairest. When you remove results, you also remove the effects of that result on surrounding results - someone who knows he only needs to take a couple of draws for survival, for example, might do so and then find in the reshuffle he's relegated anyway. Completely removing the dropping team's results at a late stage can have many unforeseen effects, and though one might be tempted to say that people should always go for the win, it's not always that simple.

It happens in real life too - there have even been court cases where teams have folded towards the end of the season and the reshuffling of points changes matters at the business ends of the table, with the affected teams in uproar for completely conflicting reasons that can't both be satisfied.
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#10 SaintM

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 01:24 PM

Fair enough, is that down to the work required on the site?

Not at all.

Fry has covered it really.

Taking between 0 - 6 points off the majority of the players at a late stage of the season could be pretty devastating to many players' seasons and wouldn't give them any time to react to that loss.
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#11 SaintM

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 01:40 PM

So basically the third rule about OTP:

You can suggest to play in OTP, but if the other player says no, you will get screwed if it goes to the pools panel?

The player who wants to play via OTP wouldn't get any points from the results the pools panel decides.

Same as any other technical reason really (eg broken xbox).
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#12 Timmo

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 03:42 PM

1v1 ideas

Handball
Clowns
Dog whistles
Singing
Jokes
Ricky impersonations
Nathan fighting Mackenie in real life in a hotel (filmed by Tyler)
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#13 sith

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:04 PM

The OTP rule seems like utter garbage.

When did we vote on that?
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#14 Goldbricker

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:13 PM

1v1 ideas
Clowns


There's enough of these as it is in the league already. :hat:
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#15 Timmo

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:37 PM

The OTP thing perhaps needs looking at. The only reason I've used it in the past is because I can't seem to get rid of my moderate NAT. (I've tried port forwarding, upnp, DMZ etc etc)

Everywhere says that moderate NAT can play open NAT or moderate NAT, but not Strict NAT. Strict NAT can only plan Open NAT.

So basically, I can play anyone except those with a Strict NAT. However, I've had to play a couple of games this and last season OTP (notably Fry Crayola, Pilotwings, Dylan) and not all have - according to them - had Strict NATs.

I'm not even sure what point I'm making anymore, I managed to bore even myself with this post. Possibly the dullest slice of internet ever conceived.
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#16 SaintM

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:46 PM

There were concerns raised during the season, so It was looked at by the steering group, which is why there has been a ruling.
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#17 Fry Crayola

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:48 PM

So basically, I can play anyone except those with a Strict NAT. However, I've had to play a couple of games this and last season OTP (notably Fry Crayola, Pilotwings, Dylan) and not all have - according to them - had Strict NATs.


Yup, I've had open NAT for a number of seasons now, but with FIFA 10 there were just some games that would not let me play head to head. It seemed to depend upon the opponent as well, as I reckon about 80% or more of my matches last season were head to head, but along would come a tie which just wouldn't connect.

This season, on the other hand, every game bar the ones against Dylan required team play, so something must have changed between games. I don't mind using OTP if it comes to it - it's preferable to not being able to play at all - although the lack of proper pausing and need to sort cameras is quite the irritance.
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#18 sith

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:49 PM

I must have missed that discussion somehow.

I'm on a strict NAT due to my router and this ruling seems very harsh to me. I used OTP a fair bit this season and have had no complaints.
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#19 xyzgames

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:51 PM

Maybe a small edit to the OTP rule is that the players should try OTP but if it is unplayable, due to lag or whatever, then it should go the pools?
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#20 SaintM

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:51 PM

If you've had no complaints then it should be fine. I imagine the vast majority of people would be happy to play via the OTP mode if that is what was required to complete the fixtures.

edit: I'll sit this one out now. I'm not a spokesperson for the steering group so I can't speak for why everyone voted the way they did. My viewpoint is that the team that is the reason why a game can't be played via the head to head mode is responsible, the same as if someone had a broken xbox or other technical reason. Some people don't like to use the OTP mode, so it's not fair that they should be forced to use an unsupported mode due to another player's issues.
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#21 sith

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:56 PM

If that is the case it seems like a useless rule and potentially open to abuse.

"Oh I need 4 points from these games and I'm playing sith"

"We need to play via OTP"

"Hmm nah don't like playing in that mode, pools panel it is"

I lose the points.

Its very unlikely such a thing would happen, but why even give someone the chance?
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#22 Pilotwings

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:58 PM

I must have missed that discussion somehow.

I'm on a strict NAT due to my router and this ruling seems very harsh to me. I used OTP a fair bit this season and have had no complaints.


Why not buy a new router though?
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#23 xyzgames

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 05:01 PM

Why not buy a new router though?

Exactly, I guess maybe the harsh reality is that just because your router is poor then it isnt fair on others who have perfectly fine routers to have to play OTP which is usually alot more unstable than head to head match ups
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#24 Wincho

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 05:02 PM

I must have missed that discussion somehow.

I'm on a strict NAT due to my router and this ruling seems very harsh to me. I used OTP a fair bit this season and have had no complaints.

Change your NAT settings then - It's not easy but there are instructions for every router on Interweb. Even I managed to alter my settings so it can be done with very little (if any) tech knowhow

One of the issues with playing OTP is that if you have a team that you completely change in terms of teh formation and the personel you only get 30 seconds to do it before the game starts (as it will give you the default team rather than your saved team formation and personnel)

Ps - can't see Sean agreeing to play anyone on OTP as it downloads the latest squads and prevents him playing with his modded superteam ;)
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#25 sith

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 05:05 PM

Its a known problem with 02 apparently and little can be done to solve it.
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#26 Jamin

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 05:06 PM

If you're still with 02 why can't you ring up and request a new modem, if your current one is not doing the job you expect of it.
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#27 Wincho

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 05:07 PM

If that is the case it seems like a useless rule and potentially open to abuse.

"Oh I need 4 points from these games and I'm playing sith"

"We need to play via OTP"

"Hmm nah don't like playing in that mode, pools panel it is"

I lose the points.

Its very unlikely such a thing would happen, but why even give someone the chance?

With respect, its your problem not theirs. Sort your NAT or router out
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#28 tyler

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 05:19 PM

One of the issues with playing OTP is that if you have a team that you completely change in terms of teh formation and the personel you only get 30 seconds to do it before the game starts (as it will give you the default team rather than your saved team formation and personnel)


You get as long as you want in OTP, so if anything you've just noted a benefit. We have to wait long enough on BAP night for you to pick the team...
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#29 Wincho

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 05:24 PM

You get as long as you want in OTP, so if anything you've just noted a benefit. We have to wait long enough on BAP night for you to pick the team...

My bad
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#30 Poppalarge

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 08:03 PM

Also, if prevents modding teams then maybe it's the way forward ;)
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