kerraig UK

The worst crimes in music

820 posts in this topic

[quote name='Palo Alto' post='6405391' date='Sep 11 2009, 09:53 PM']Lest we forget the best example of key change and vocoder in the same track :)


Game got real in '84:


[url="http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/living+on+a+prayer/video/x3me93_bon-jovi-living-on-a-prayer_music"]Prayer Baby[/url][/quote]

Funny story, not actually a vocoder. It's a [url="http://www.gfworks.jp/talkbox/"]Talk Box[/url].

Similar, but instead of using EQ filters and envelopes to emulate the human voice in the synth, the Talk Box features a tube which the player inserts in his/her mouth, essentially using the mouth as an analogue pass filter.

[quote]Since talkbox creates sound that is somewhat mechanic compared to a human voice, some people may confuse it as a vocoder. Vocoder's structure and sound differs completely from a talkbox. In a vocoder, human voice and synthesizer signals are respectively directed through 10 to 20 band-path filters and envelope followers to analyze the human voice and reproduce the modifying amplitude by each bandwidth frequency. Talkbox and Vocoder are similar in a sense that it both filters a synthesizer, but band-path filters are used in a vocoder where the actual mouth is used in a talkbox. Therefore, a more precise pronunciation is possible with a talkbox.[/quote]




[quote name='Liquid Myth' post='6407149' date='Sep 12 2009, 06:46 PM']Just a piece of info for all the confused whingers in this thread: [b]Autotune[/b] is a piece of software used to correct minor displacements of audio for any harmonic instrument, not just vocals. The effect everyone is whinging about is a type of vocoding distortion popularised by Cher a while back.[/quote]

Also not a vocoder, but in fact done with...you guessed it...[url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb99/articles/tracks661.htm"]Antares Autotune.[/url]
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[quote name='ben-k' post='6407338' date='Sep 12 2009, 08:29 PM']Funny story, not actually a vocoder. It's a [url="http://www.gfworks.jp/talkbox/"]Talk Box[/url].

Similar, but instead of using EQ filters and envelopes to emulate the human voice in the synth, the Talk Box features a tube which the player inserts in his/her mouth, essentially using the mouth as an analogue pass filter.[/quote]
Is that similar to what Peter Frampton used with his guitar in stuff like "Do you feel like we do"?
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And Dave Gilmour on Keep Talking.

And is that other effect always Autotune? I'll confess I've only used it briefly as a curiosity and I never got that Cher effect out of it. Melodyne and VariAudio (Cubase's new Melodyne clone) I have.
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[quote name='Basement St. Thomas' post='6407488' date='Sep 12 2009, 10:05 PM']And is that other effect always Autotune? I'll confess I've only used it briefly as a curiosity and I never got that Cher effect out of it. Melodyne and VariAudio (Cubase's new Melodyne clone) I have.[/quote]

It's definitely Autotune on Believe. They've applied it to certain lines ("so saaad") which are in tune, but sung in slurs, with the scale thresholds set fairly harshly. With some playing you get the slurred vocal to "stick" to the scale.

Either that or you can cheat and shift the notes manually, iirc.
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ooh, punk covers of 80's tunes suck

as do most covers albums to be honest.

Mike patton has a habit of dropping a couple of lines of some cheesy 80's classic into the middle of a song and it drives me nuts.

also, american metal bands demanding that we circle pit for them rather than letting us just get on with it
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[quote name='kerraig UK' post='6407850' date='Sep 13 2009, 03:59 AM']ooh, punk covers of 80's tunes suck[/quote]

Definitely, though the Ska Punk ones are the worst.
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[quote name='Foolish_Mortal' post='6407649' date='Sep 12 2009, 11:40 PM']2. False endings[/quote]


Helter Skelter?

A Song for the Dead?
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Hmmm, crimes in music, well....

Rap skits on albums.
"Uhh uhh woo woo one two one two" at the start of a verse. C'mon, these remain on the cutting room floor.
Songs that start instantly with vocals.
The intro to "Two Princes" by the Spin Doctors
Don Maclean's "American Pie" - "oh, do you know what this one is about?" "yes I do, do one!"

You know at school there was alway someone that would scrape their nails down a black-boad. Here is the closest you can get in musical form...


Real american angst ridden rock, you know, concerned about, y'know, stuff. Ironically also by Staind. From America, and thats why they own guns. My directors cut of the video would of ended with the guy blowing his brains out with a rifle, and then the police finding the Staind music and then lock those fuckers up...:(


Oh and if you like a laugh, check out some of the comments YouTube users have left for these two videos. :(

Also,
Robbie Williams
UB40
4 Non Blondes - I said hey, WHATS GOING ON!
Eagle Eyed Cherry - that one thats always on the radio
Bon Jovi - drowning in the flood indeed.
Loads and loads more... :)
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[quote name='ben-k' post='6407338' date='Sep 12 2009, 08:29 PM']Funny story, not actually a vocoder. It's a [url="http://www.gfworks.jp/talkbox/"]Talk Box[/url].

Similar, but instead of using EQ filters and envelopes to emulate the human voice in the synth, the Talk Box features a tube which the player inserts in his/her mouth, essentially using the mouth as an analogue pass filter.[/quote]

Ah this must be what Sly (or maybe Freddie) used on Sly & the Family Stone's 'Don't Call me Nigger, Whitey'. I knew it was some kind of device that linked the guitar to the mouth.

In this instance the use of a talkbox is undoubtedly a triumph for mankind.
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Anything to do with Antares Auto-tune, or any voice pitcher from Cher onwards.

Most pop music.
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[quote name='Foolish_Mortal' post='6407649' date='Sep 12 2009, 11:40 PM']1. Fade outs[/quote]

This is THE worst crime in music, for sure. There so many great tracks that just get faded out, and as they get quieter and quieter you can just hear the guitarist or whoever starting to get their freak on properly. At least with Prince you would be able to sometimes get an extended version on a 12" that would reveal the previously deleted wonders, but there are so many other crimes of this nature that it beggars belief.
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In saying that, the little fade out on the ultra short album version of Marvin Gaye's version of 'I Wanna Be Where You Are' just has a certain magic about it that disappears somewhat on the full extended epic version. It's this shining little glimmer of beauty that flits in and out of the album like a butterfly :( Part of the fun with that version is turning the volume up gradually as it fades out, trying to squeeze every single last drop of joy from it.
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I hate it when something amazing starts happening just as the song fades out on a 10 minute record, like there wasn't time to fit it in.

I don't like when people crowbar influences from another genre into their stuff with no real love for it. I always feel like that when Kanye West apes some European dance stuff like he's the first to hear it, or when everyone goes nuts for Bollywood for 2 months every few years.
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[quote name='Foolish_Mortal' post='6407649' date='Sep 12 2009, 11:40 PM']1. Fade outs[/quote]

Hahahahahaha
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[quote name='ZOK' post='6408116' date='Sep 13 2009, 11:47 AM']This is THE worst crime in music, for sure. There so many great tracks that just get faded out, and as they get quieter and quieter you can just hear the guitarist or whoever starting to get their freak on properly. At least with Prince you would be able to sometimes get an extended version on a 12" that would reveal the previously deleted wonders, but there are so many other crimes of this nature that it beggars belief.[/quote]

The double snare beat right at the end of Criminology comes to mind.
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Some of James Brown's greatest works were hemorrhaged with ruthless fadeouts.

1. 'Blind Man Can See'

Original release, Black Ceasar OST, length: 2 and a bit minutes. Massively influential, crazily stunning, PRIME Jabo / Sweets / Nolan groove laced with Dave Matthews underated rhodes work. Here's a cut that all the golden age producers looped [i]just so they could hear it for a decent amount of time[/i], fuck what an emcee would end up doing with it. Luckily for us a 7min+ cut was finally legitamately unleashed on the 'Jungle Groove' reissue and the world was made a better place.

2. 'Talkin' Loud and Sayin' Nothin'

Original release, There It Is 1972, length:5 and a bit minutes. One of the meanest nuggets of the pure, hard funk bomb recorded by the Bootsy - Catfish era JBs in 1970, this cut would go on to be reissued with slightly increasing lengths over the years but eventually (on the original-JB-compiling 'Funk Power 1970') given to us in its full 15 minute take. James Brown was heavily critical of many of his fellow black superstars (such as Bill Cosby), calling them 'Blacks who act Negro' amongst other things, and the full take catches Brown and Byrd in full swing. Explosive.

I could go on but I'll spare you all for now.
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Come on, vocoders are great. We wouldn't have Mr. Blue Sky without them.

I hate that growling thing that's popular in heavy guitar music. Where the guy doesn't sing, but grumbles deep down in his throat like the last flatulence of a dying grizzly bear. It's like a joke track from the Green Jelly album that's somehow managed to evolve into a whole musical subculture, where the person who can make the deepest growling noise that's furthest removed from actual singing becomes king of the idiot tribe.

Also, albums 'inspired by' films or TV shows, or whatever. Basically albums full of songs completely unrelated to the film/TV show they're promoting, that go on to sell more than the actual score from the movie. And on a related note, songs by famous recording artists over the end credits of movies that totally overshadow the actual score of the film they're attached to. It's like all the gorgeous movie music that doesn't have Nickelback or Celine Dion caterwauling over the top doesn't count, because the people doing the real gruntwork aren't famous.

Insincere, soulless songs from people hoping to make a quick buck cashing in on a musical trend. Where they sound slightly off, like someone described what a song was supposed to sound to the producer, but she'd never actually heard it herself. Like all those muzak, supermarket covers, or those cheap dance albums where they squander the budget on a couple Sneaker Pimps tracks so they have to get Jeff in do a version of Robert Miles's Children on his Casio home keyboard.

That Wendy Carlos's career plays second fiddle to her personal life.
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[quote name='Timmo' post='6408516' date='Sep 13 2009, 02:51 PM']The worst invention since Hitler.[/quote]

Whoever owns the patent must be gutted with the way that turned out.
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[quote name='Campfire_Burning' post='6408604' date='Sep 13 2009, 03:36 PM']That Wendy Carlos's career plays second fiddle to her personal life.[/quote]

This isn't really the case, is it?
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[quote name='Art Vandelay' post='6408138' date='Sep 13 2009, 11:58 AM']I hate it when something amazing starts happening just as the song fades out on a 10 minute record, like there wasn't time to fit it in.

I don't like when people crowbar influences from another genre into their stuff with no real love for it. I always feel like that when Kanye West apes some European dance stuff like he's the first to hear it, or when everyone goes nuts for Bollywood for 2 months every few years.[/quote]

Like that bloody "JaiHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" song by the Pussycat Dolls. Not only a crap Bollywood cash-in, but the male voice is Autotuned to fuck on the chorus. I realise it's probably just the same male vocal sample as used in the verse with the last note played around with, but it goes through me.
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[quote name='kerraig UK' post='6407850' date='Sep 13 2009, 03:59 AM']ooh, punk covers of 80's tunes suck

as do most covers albums to be honest.[/quote]



I like these ;)
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