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Poet

Bad Beats

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I'm with you on tourny bad beats, as hours of good play can be undone by a little bad luck. It is however a great feeling to come 1st in tournments, all the long hours of concentration and hard work make it a worthwhile buzz.
The thing I really hate about tourny bad beats ( 95% - 5%), is when the player who got lucky loses the very next hand (72 off etc), and loses all the chips they won off you before you can put GG.
In cash games you can always reload and wait for the player to make the mistake again, and hopefully not luck out.

Remember: It's because of bad beats that your good hands get called by the players willing to gamble those 1/15 shots.
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[quote name='nosferatu' post='3930629' date='Mar 30 2007, 02:58 AM']Remember: It's because of bad beats that your good hands get called by the players willing to gamble those 1/15 shots.[/quote]
And god bless them for it.
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[quote name='Poet' post='3930560' date='Mar 30 2007, 01:23 AM']Given I usually 8 table 6 Max games, I get to see all sorts of wondrously good starting hands all the time. It just sucks when they don't hold up for about 8 hours straight or the only time they do is when everyone folds preflop. Mind you, I'm out of the slump now, though I took another $700 hammering yesterday before taking a break and then coming back to make over $850 back (my heart goes out to your bro mind!). My swings have been ridiculous since coming back. I've looked through the hands I've played and, sure, there's definitely room for me to have saved a couple of buyins but, generally, I'm pretty happy with my play. Next month I'm going to pull out the stops and put the hours in, to really try to get my bankroll back up (this 40 days without net access left my cash reserves drained somewhat) so I can steam on to a higher level and stay there this time around.

Unlike you, I don't do tournaments. Too many donkeys, one unlucky hand and you're gone having wasted hours of work, etc. Last time I played a tourney, I had AJ on a JJT flop. All in. He had TT. I wasn't far from some reasonable money then and, yet again, I felt like I'd wasted my time. I might try a few sometime though, just to mix it up a bit if I tire from the cash games. It's always nice having a final table and bringing in a (low) four figure sum (that sort of tourney win has only happened to me twice, but still, twice from about 6 tourneys in the last 15 months, I'll take it).

And as for the joys of LOLmaha... the place where, postflop, EVERYTHING is a coinflip. I gave up trying to play the game for significant money. I can't multitable efficiently (it's like going back to when I found 2 tabling full ring) and it's just too much like hard work. Good game though. More than happy to play it with friends.
Anyway, good luck with the tourneys coming up. Hope you crush those games and walk away a wealthier person.[/quote]

I haven't played cash games for a while since I took a fucking sickening beat for a [i]huge[/i] pot online a while back (AA vs. AQ all in on ace high flop, with no draws, I don't even want to go into the details), and I withdrew the balance of my PokerStars account incase I tilted it off, so I could use it in live tournaments.

As for tournaments vs. cash games, I have to say I prefer tournaments, I really enjoy the long hours, the endurance aspect, the playing with the same players for hours on end. And I love the deception that's involved in playing against the grain of what your opponents think your style of play is. In the casino I frequent, there are some players who think I'm a complete and utter rock, and some who think I'm really aggressive, which is just how I like it, as I can change gears according to the players I'm sitting across from. I find it very satisfying to constantly analyze players for tells, and then when I use them successfully to steal a pot, it's a wonderful feeling. I like building up a tight image at the beginning of a tournament (easy in big tournaments when the blinds are small, I rarely get too involved in these levels anyway, I tend to get frisky when the antes come in and the pots become worth fighting for, and on the bubble), only to change gears at a critical juncture (I used this strategy at the first casino tournament I played, and it resulted in me walking away over 1000 Euros better off). In short, tourneys = me likey.

As for, as you put it, LOLmaha, I really wouldn't have the stomach for Omaha cash games, the swings are massive, but I'm not aversed to a small tourney with friends. It's a sick game, though. There was a hand I was involved in last week when I got down to heads-up in a small sit-n-go among friends, where my opponent had a set of fours, and I had two flush draws and a total wrap, but my hand still amounted to 8 high, yet I was the favourite. Sick game. Trying to get a better handle on it, to add to my poker arsenal (namely, in order of ability, Hold 'Em, Razz, Seven Card Stud Hi-Lo (currently incredibly juicy online), 5-card draw, and Deuce to Seven Triple Draw). I only wish there were live H.O.R.S.E. tournaments around here.
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Well fuck this for a game of soldiers. Down another $450 tonight.

Highlights:

THESE ARE ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING.

1. AQ vs A4 on Axx flop. I bet, he minimum check raises me, I call (cos he's a retard donkey). Turn Ace. He checks, I bet, he min-CRs me, I go all in, he calls. River 4. So 3 outs to win there. Thanks.
2. TT vs KJ. All in on KT9 flop. Turn 9, river K. Work out those odds. He needs runner runner everything (aside from that gutshot, of course).

So far these two hands alone, where I was a massive favourite, had they held up I'd have had a breakeven night. But oh no. Here's just a few more highlights:

KQ vs JJ on Queen high flop vs short stack. All in on flop. Turn J.
TT vs 77. He calls off $17 preflop with $100 stacks, hits set.
AA vs 93. YES. NINE FUCKING THREE. He chased down a one card straight and hit on the river with all the money already in the middle. I did not slowplay.
KK vs AJ. River Ace. Betting all the way.
AK vs QTo ALL IN PREFLOP vs medium stack. He wins.
JJ vs JTs - he calls off $13 preflop cold calling a reraise. Flop all low. He goes all in. I know he has fuck all. Rivers a flush.

And a couple of coolers, just for fun:

AQ vs 88 on AQ8 flop.
QQ vs JT on Q98 flop.

This is so sick. Yet again I'm paying off the biggest donkeys at the table for the most part. It's been a sick couple of weeks.
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Oh this is taking the piss. Took a breather. Came back to it. One of the first hands: AK vs K8 against a guy I know is a TOTAL idiot. King high flop. All in on turn. River 8. He has K8.

Good times.

And yes, the guy had 4 extra outs on the TT vs KJ hand, in case anyone says.
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[quote name='Poet' post='3932386' date='Mar 31 2007, 02:32 AM']And yes, the guy had 4 extra outs on the TT vs KJ hand, in case anyone says.[/quote]

That's sick, dude. Maybe a break from the game is in order? I don't know what your tilt control is like, but any degree of tilt would just cost you more money, and more frustration.

I find that keeping a notebook, and writing down any bad beats you receive, the percentages involved, and, more importantly, all the bad beats you give others, you find that in the long run, it all evens out. It's a lot easier to remember that 2 outer for 600 dollar pot that knocked the wind out of you than it is to remember a 2 outer you hit for a similar pot.
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I use Pokertracker to keep track of everything (if you play online, buy it - best $50 or so you'll ever spend, and use it in conjucntion with PAHud - google it or add me on Messenger if you ever want to talk about this sort of stuff), and analyse losing sessions (and some winning, depending on how busy I am). I also write down bad beats next to me on a pad as my form of venting (hence why I don't bother putting up all the hand histories to bore you with). That and the occasional "oh do fuck off" said to myself, alone in my apartment. I can (and do) get annoyed, but I know it doesn't change my play.

This thread is really just another avenue to vent for me. After that last beat I went on to finish a little ahead, so "only" down 3.5 buyins for the day. Given the shocking run I've just had, I'll take it gladly.
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yeah they are sick beats esp the TT vs KJ

here is 1 of my favourites:

This was on limit cash table so not so bad a beat.

I have 88 on bb and call raise from mid position, as does sb. Flop comes 8 5d 6d and sb (guy I knew would call with any ace), comes out betting. This is where I played hand wrong and called trying to keep the pre flop raiser in who i thought had an over pair and might raise. The pre flop raiser just calls, so i'm alittle unhappy. The turn comes 6s, which I'm happy for, as I now beat any flush (non str flush) or straight that might be out there or that will come. The sb comes out betting again. I'm greedy and just call again to keep pre flop raiser in (I know bad move). The pre flop raiser folds (opps). The river then comes another 6h ( 8 5 6 6 6 ). That is ok I think, as I place him now on A8, A6 (unlikey but argghhh), A5, or 55 or overpair. As i'd been waiting for the turn/river double limit to raise (yes greedy and a gamble), I raise his bet, and re-raise to cap the betting. Now I'm waiting for chips to come my way when he does indeed have A6 off (noooo), for quad 6's. :unsure:
Yeah I played hand wrong (esp the river and the 2 connecting diamonds on flop), but I was massive favourite on the turn. This is a good example of why not to slow play, even though I'm sure he would have called raise on flop, then from turn onwards was going to play back at me with his ace kicker.

This hand shows problem of limit games, odds for people to call, and you sometimes have to gamble (slow play) to try and keep opponents in, to increase the pot.
Some of your NL cash game beats are really sick however, as I thought they only happened that often on the low limit NL games and freerolls, cheap tournys.
Mind you I remember a hand in highstakes poker series 2 where Gus Hanson and Daniel Negreanu played this hand ....

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfBa9PuILCc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfBa9PuILCc[/url]
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Ah I remember watching High Stakes Poker and that hand. Horrible beat. And so is that runner runner 6 hand! I actually laid a similar beat on someone like that in No Limit, where he had Queens full and I stacked him with rivered Quad 5s. I still remember it well, and it's actually posted up here in one of the threads. Mind you, I played that hand quite nicely. I just happened to not suspect he had such a huge hand!

I used to play Limit. I actually gave up because I had a couple of horrible downswings with a ton of bad beats. Almost quit poker at that time, but moved to No Limit instead, thinking it would be easier to pray on the weak players and make a lot more cash with less risk. And it is easier, just that when you do have that sick run of bad beats, it ends up costing a relatively large amount of money very quickly.

Oh, and the thing is, I don't play high stakes at all. It's all small stakes stuff. At the moment I'm supposed to be rebuilding my bankroll and so am playing at NL100, but I'll make a moved back up to NL200 when I have 20 buyins for that level, and hopefully on from there in a little while. But given this run I'm having, it looks like it might be a while before I have that bankroll! I'm supposed to be making money each day, not losing it!
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Unfortunately, as I've seen from my brother's experiences, the sick beats as a result of bad calls appear just as frequently at the bigger limits as they do at the smaller limits. For example, take this hand of his (I'll remove the names so as not to go bandying his name about the place) at 25/50 Omaha. He is BB.

Seat 1: Button ($317 in chips)
Seat 2: SB ($3088 in chips)
Seat 4: BB ($5730 in chips)
Seat 5: UTG ($4383 in chips)
Seat 6: UTG+1 ($5398 in chips)
SB: posts small blind $25
BB: posts big blind $50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BB [9s 5c 9d Jc]
UTG: folds
UTG+1: raises $125 to $175
Button: folds
SB: calls $150
BB: calls $125
*** FLOP *** [9h 2h 6c]
SB: checks
BB: checks
UTG+1: bets $523
SB: folds
BB: calls $523
*** TURN *** [9h 2h 6c] [Qc]
BB: checks
UTG+1: bets $1569
BB: raises $3463 to $5032 and is all-in
UTG+1: calls $3131 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [9h 2h 6c Qc] [Ad]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BB: shows [9s 5c 9d Jc] (three of a kind, Nines)
UTG+1: shows [Qd Ks Ah Ac] (three of a kind, Aces)
UTG+1 collected $10969 from pot

Ridiculous call with just Aces, no draw. I know "just aces" sounds ridiculous to those of you don't play Omaha, but if you're looking at a 5000 dollar bet, there's no sense in calling with just an overpair to the board. So, as you can see, bad calls happen no matter how high you go.
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[quote name='Dazza' post='3932442' date='Mar 31 2007, 04:44 AM'][b]Ridiculous call with just Aces, no draw.[/b] I know "just aces" sounds ridiculous to those of you don't play Omaha, but if you're looking at a 5000 dollar bet, there's no sense in calling with just an overpair to the board. So, as you can see, bad calls happen no matter how high you go.[/quote]
Wow. REALLY.

Like I said, this place is just for venting for me. You can see ridiculous beats in the BBV sub forum over at the 2+2 forums at all levels, and a number of ridiculously good players posting what is an obscene amount of winnings. It'd be nice to be up there with the big boys one day.
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[quote name='Poet' post='3932444' date='Mar 31 2007, 05:03 AM']Wow. REALLY.[/quote]

Alright man, chill out. I know that when you're on the bad run you seem to be on, it feels like you're the only one. It's just variance, just trying to show that it happens to everyone. These bad runs turn into good ones, then into bad ones, and so on. You just need to minimise your losses in the bad runs, and maximise them in the good ones. Plus, at the .50/1 level, where I used to spend my time, there are far more weak players than even at 1/2, so bad calls become more frequent, meaning bad beats become more frequent.
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Eh? I was just vehemently agreeing with you that it was a really bad play from the guy with AA! That's all. I'm totally chilled. Just sitting here doing some casino bonuses while catching up on some TV shows, occasionally taking a break and reading rllmuk.
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[quote name='Poet' post='3932452' date='Mar 31 2007, 05:33 AM']Eh? I was just vehemently agreeing with you that it was a bad play from the guy with AA! That's all. I'm totally chilled. Just sitting here doing some casino bonuses while catching up on some TV shows, occasionally taking a break and reading rllmuk.[/quote]

Oh, my apologies. :unsure: Capital letters rarely express being chilled out, my mistake. :wub:
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Sorry - it was more of an italic thing expressing surprise rather than a shouty thing, except I was too lazy to put it in italics. Y'know, like Chandler or something.

Anyway, yes I'm running bad, but I'm still actually a few hundred dollars up in the last two weeks, plus another few hundred in rakeback and then some more in bonuses, so it's not like I'm actually losing money. Hmmmmm.... just had a look. Overall, I'm still good for well over a thousand dollars including all the extra bumpf. Oh I just worked it out - I'm currently making around £15 per hour while I feel like this is an awful run. It's not the end of the world by any stretch.
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Oh just for fun, my last casino bonus, I turned $215 into $0 in the space of $700 wagered using $4 bets, including hitting an incredible 22 Double Losses to 13 Wins. When I run bad I guess I run bad at everything.
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Those close to me know the utter punishment I've taken recently. Well, today was no exception.

Highlights:

AJ vs AK. Jxx flop, Ace on turn. He checkraises me all in. Of course I call. King on river.
JT vs K6. AJT flop. He bets, I put him all in. He calls. Turn Queen.
KQ vs AK. AQx flop. He bets small, so I call. Turn Queen. He bets, I put him all in, he calls. River Ace.
KK vs QQ. All in on low flop. Turn Queen.
KK vs AQ all in on JT9 flop. Turn 8.
KK vs ATo all in preflop. Flopped an Ace.

And a few others where I was over 90% to win when the money went in. Yes, 90%. Set vs overpair twice included where they hit their higher set on the river.

I have finally run worse than I ever possibly imagined. It's not fun.
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Ouch, man. Some real coolers there. I had a similar run a few months back, and while it hasn't stopped, it's not as severe now. Just know that because of this bad run, you'll experience an equally enormous good run at some stage.

I've decided to take a much-needed break from the game until my league finals. Then, after the summer, when I'm back in my old apartment in the city with broadband, I'm going to lodge 200 dollars to an online account, get myself a rakeback deal, get myself set up with PokerTracker, and get my game polished by grinding up from $.05/$.10, and move up levels every time I get together 20 buyins for the next level. So at $400 I'll move up to $.10/$.20, at $1000 I'll move up to $.25/$.50, and so on. Should be a nice little challenge for me to cost-effectively improve my cash game play, which needs some serious help. I'll probably start a blog around that time to track my progress. Quite looking forward to it!
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Oh and to top off the night: 86.5% VP$IP hits set over set on me for $200.

Oh, and AT vs T5 (!!!) on Ten high flop. 5 on river. Thanks very much for that.
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Oh no - THIS tops the night off:

JJ on QJx flop. All in. Turn Queen. River Ace. He has AQ.

I have never know anyone run worse. That's not me feeling sorry for myself - that's the honest truth.
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Jesus Christ, that last one is brutal. Can't fault him for getting the money in, really, especially at those levels, but that's a brutal beat. Have you thought of changing sites? Not saying that it's a problem with the site, but maybe for a change of pace, and a new player-base.
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[quote name='Dazza' post='3937978' date='Apr 9 2007, 04:22 AM']Jesus Christ, that last one is brutal. Can't fault him for getting the money in, really, especially at those levels, but that's a brutal beat. Have you thought of changing sites? Not saying that it's a problem with the site, but maybe for a change of pace, and a new player-base.[/quote]
There's so many players at Party, there's no issue there, plus it's a very easy site to multitable. Another $1,000 loss tonight. Just spent an hour or so going through the big losers I've had tonight in Pokertracker and, aside from the two set under sets I've had tonight, every single large loser I put my money in well ahead, indeed a handful I was over a 90% favourite with the money all in but I lost them. Nothing more I can do.

Another month, and I'd be up several thousand dollars already. Instead, I'm down about $1,000 from play. Oh well... I'll make it back. Ths standard of play is so bad this can't last forever.
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.

About half an hour in to a $2 tourney. Doubled up early on, sitting tight when this happens.

[quote]Starting Hand #79621816
Last Hand #79621727
Game Type: Hold'em
Limit Type: No Limit
Table Type: Tournament
Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS
Blinds are now $30/$60
Button is at seat 5
Seat 1: maasn1983 - $2625
Seat 2: nick2u - $4440
Seat 3: Maximas - $330
Seat 4: AussieGuy83 - $1290
Seat 5: Toon22 - $3630
Seat 6: MrBlunted - $2955
Moving Button to seat 6
maasn1983 posts small blind ($30)
nick2u posts big blind ($60)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [Ah As] to MrBlunted
Maximas calls $60
AussieGuy83 folds
Toon22 calls $60
MrBlunted raises to $180
maasn1983 calls $180
nick2u calls $180
Maximas calls $180
Toon22 calls $180
Dealing Flop [Jc 7s 8d]
maasn1983 bets $480
nick2u calls $480
Maximas calls $150 (all-in)
Toon22 folds
MrBlunted raises to $2775 (all-in)
maasn1983 calls $2445 (all-in)
nick2u folds
Returning $330 to MrBlunted uncalled
maasn1983 shows [Jh Kd]
Maximas shows [9c Ks]
MrBlunted shows [Ah As]
Dealing Turn [4s]
Dealing River [Js]
MrBlunted has Two Pairs: Aces, Jacks
maasn1983 has Three of a Kind: Jacks
maasn1983 wins $4920 from side pot #1 with: Three of a Kind: Jacks
[b]maasn1983: suck it[/b]
maasn1983 wins $1500 with: Three of a Kind: Jacks
Seat 1: maasn1983 - $6420
Seat 2: nick2u - $3780
Seat 3: Maximas - $0
Seat 4: AussieGuy83 - $1290
Seat 5: Toon22 - $3450
Seat 6: MrBlunted - $330
End Of Hand #79621816[/quote]
The bolded comment made me want to smash his fucking face in. At least win with a bit of dignity you cunt. This put him in lead of the tourney too. Then, to finish it about ten minutes later, after clawing my way back towards a grand:

[quote]Starting Hand #79624243
Last Hand #79624093
Game Type: Hold'em
Limit Type: No Limit
Table Type: Tournament
Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS
Blinds are now $75/$150
Button is at seat 5
Seat 1: MrBlunted - $960
Seat 2: Av3nger - $7670
Seat 3: theloosescrew - $4450
Seat 4: mafrajr - $1335
Seat 5: mattydred - $3020
Seat 6: Jarazz - $1385
Moving Button to seat 6
MrBlunted posts small blind ($75)
Av3nger posts big blind ($150)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [8d Ac] to MrBlunted
theloosescrew calls $150
mafrajr folds
mattydred calls $150
Jarazz calls $150
MrBlunted calls $150
Av3nger checks
Dealing Flop [5d Ad 3h]
MrBlunted bets $810 (all-in)
Av3nger folds
theloosescrew calls $810
mattydred folds
Jarazz raises to $1235 (all-in)
theloosescrew calls $1235
MrBlunted shows [8d Ac]
theloosescrew shows [Kc Kd]
Jarazz shows [4h As]
Dealing Turn [8c]
Dealing River [2s]
Jarazz has Straight, 5 high
Jarazz wins $850 from side pot #1 with: Straight, 5 high
Jarazz wins $3180 with: Straight, 5 high
Seat 1: MrBlunted - $0
Seat 2: Av3nger - $7520
Seat 3: theloosescrew - $3065
Seat 4: mafrajr - $1335
Seat 5: mattydred - $2870
Seat 6: Jarazz - $4030
End Of Hand #79624243[/quote]
JESUS. FUCKING. CHRIST.

I hate this fucking game sometimes.
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I don't like the 3x bb raise with AAs. No where near enough when two people have already limped. Your raise just attracted callers and with 4 other players going to the flop it was likely that you AAs would get crack. I would have been tempted to shove pre-flop or raise a massive amount to isolate maybe one player.

Saying all this I'm useless with AAs. After being cracked by 4d 9d in a cash room when I raised 40x bb pre-flop (he flopped a god damn flush) I've resorted to going all in pre-flop with them all the time. I still get callers and I still get shafted. JJ K10 and Q4 have rogered me so far.

Felix
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